The very real stigma of living with a disclosed mental health condition (spin off of 7-Eleven watch thread)

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

I didn’t want to believe this would ever happen to me. But it has.

I was briefly denied a mental health day off from work, the day after being forced to babysit a known alleged criminal and prevent her from doing any more damage to us, and getting into an argument with her over very shady behavior that resulted in me raising my voice and pointing my finger in her face. This during a day when I turned down no less than three people for alcohol and cigarette sales for not having their ID with them, and no less than 10 people gave me grief. I am constant as the Northern Star, and the law is on my side, and I will not be moved.

I was on the phone crying my eyes out to my pastor, wondering if I’d even still be remembered a year after I was gone, wondering if I’d ever know how much of a difference I made to people’s lives and improving the world, and that fear is so very, very real that I’m breaking up right now as we speak, tears streaming down my face, just recalling it. The pain is very real, and very, very raw. My grandfather was a great, great man, an educator. My father is a great woman, a former music minister. And I’ve done fuck-all with my life. I thought I’d be married with children by now, at the very least.

That’s part of why my 2022 New Year’s Resolution was to always make sure the people I love know just how much I love them. That’s why I’ve committed to learning basic conversational skills in Spanish, so I can communicate with more of my customers. And that’s why I’m going to start a series of benefit concerts for the church’s wider outreach around the world, starting with The Trevor Project. I’m stepping up my activism.

So, while on the phone with my pastor, I get a call back from Work Ethic Woman, who informs me that sadly, I’ll have to come in anyway, that they can’t find anyone to cover my shift. And it’s time to set some boundaries.

“Nope,” I replied. “I’m taking a mental health day off from work. I’m not at her beck and call 24 hours a day. I’m a human being with very real needs that were elucidated up front. She knows damn well I have a diagnosed mental health condition, and if she attempts to force me to come in, I will quit this job and she can go fuck herself.” I might even be able to get an ADA claim out of it. Especially with the detailed records I’ve been keeping.

I didn’t say it just like that, of course, and the ADA claim didn’t occur to me until just now. Work Ethic Woman didn’t realize it had been so bad that I’d called the Suicide and Crisis Hotline until I told her, and she was horrified. “Okay. Don’t worry about it.”

But there is a very real stigma in this world when it comes to people battling mental health issues. Mentor has spent the last two days off from work battling some kind of stomach flu (and even he had to work the day after dental surgery, when he literally was in so much pain he couldn’t speak. I should have offered to work a double and sent his ass home, and I’m a little upset at myself that I didn’t.)

Anyway, what are your thoughts?

2

You’re a part of the SDMB community. Of course you’ll be remembered! You’re one of us. (“One of us! One of us!”)

In your 7-11 thread, you’ve shown brief glimpses into how you interact with your customers. That little girl who played piano? The one you fist-bumped and told her “No negative thoughts!” and encouraged her?
You think that didn’t make a difference to her? You think her mom won’t remember that interaction fondly?

What about the guy who fixed the rebar in the parking lot, the one who appreciated your warm vibes and positivity? Guarantee you made his day.

Most people leave their mark on this world in myriad tiny ways.

As to your main topic … yeah, it sucks. No sugarcoating that. Too many people chirp platitudes like, “Oh, just take a nice walk! Some fresh air and sunshine will cheer you right up!”

Worse is, “Don’t they have a pill for that now?”
Sure, but they come with nasty side effects and sometimes then still don’t do any good & now you’re worse off than before. (SSRI withdrawal syndrome, anyone?)

3

There are two forms of this basic kind of stigma:

A) If you behave or otherwise express any form of psychological, cognitive, or emotional stress that means you’re not functioning at optimum, people and organizations often react by providing LESS accommodation, not more. Your range of options gets reduced, not increased. Instead of protecting you from additional stressors or making any additional allowances, they act to protect themselves, their organization, and the world at large from you. Every subsequent behavior of yours is regarded as suspect, so you then operate with a more narrow range of acceptable behaviors than your coworkers and colleagues and other people in your environment do.

B) Regardless of your actual behavior and regardless of any unpleasantness of any sort going on in your head, the mere fact of your known status, all by itself, causes your behaviors and perceptions and viewpoints to be disparaged as delusional and hence not worthy of serious consideration by others.

4

Have you considered seeking work which you might find less stressful?

5

Really? Do you think a lot of people take high-stress, low-pay retail customer service jobs because it hasn’t occurred to them to look for anything easier?

6

I don’t know ekedolphin , so I don’t mean to suggest that this applies to him - but I’ve known plenty of people who took high-stress, low-paying retail customer service jobs because they prefer that work to the sort of lower stress but still low paid work they might get as a custodian/janitor or something similar. “Less stressful” isn’t the same as “easier.”

7

You should not discuss private information, such as your health, with anyone at work. If you are sick then you are sick and cannot come in, or personal leave is personal; they do not need to hear the details. I guess if you were pregnant they might figure it out eventually (especially when it came time for maternity or paternity leave), but even then there is no need to have a long conversation about it.

Once I came in with my arm in a cast; people are curious but you can usually satisfy them with “I broke it skiing” or whatever. As for “how are you?”, the correct answer is “Fine, thank you!” and, as @AHunter3 says, not “I am tired and under a lot of stress”.

8

ISTM most of the source of the stress for our friend is the craptacular co-workers and their craptacular unreliability. Coupled to managers who don’t care enough to staff adequately, and our OP who obviously cares more than anyone.

From the other thread we know our dear OP is planning to change jobs soon. Once there, the key thing is don’t get worked into a sleep-deprived state. People in excellent mental health are borderline nuts when sleep deprived. Anyone with anxiety, depression, or any other challenges will be all-the-worse when sleep deprived. You now know not to let them do that to you again. That’s a valuable lesson / reminder of something you knew but forgot. And nobody at your new job will need to know why you aren’t willing to be sleep-deprived.

In yet another thread a person who works for non-profits was talking about their organization coming apart. Lots of people leaving, both planned and unplanned, her workload and the expectations for her versatility and number of job titles is exploding. Possible budget cuts ahead, and even worse if she can’t instantly deliver on jobs she’s just learning. Yipes!

She said she was bursting with stress but she cares about the mission too much to quit. I asked if she cares more about the mission than her own well-being.

It was a rhetorical question, but one meant to provoke some serious thinking though not a public answer here. Particularly at the lower parts of the economic food-chain, the only person who cares about you … is you. To everyone else at your employer you’re just a cog to be used or used up. And immediately thrown away when used up.

Don’t be that used up cog. It isn’t necessary to keep your job, this one or the next one or the one after that. Do a good earnest job while you’re there, and be gone when you’re gone. Do this for future you. Because future you needs current you to stay healthy in mind and body.

9

You know, I didn’t address this when I responded to the OP since the cat’s out of the bag and the info can’t be un-told, but … you are absolutely right.

O.P. when you apply for a new job, do NOT disclose personal medical info to your employer or coworkers. It’s absolutely none of their business (ever heard of HIPAA?) and can only work against you.

As for the disability and limits on your hours, simply say, “I don’t want to be scheduled for more than X hours per week” and that’s it. There’s no need to say more, and a halfway decent manager won’t ask.

10

Well, unless you’ve got an attitude about it. I mean, in my case, I want them to know because it’s my business and I only want to work in a place where they accept that I’m out and public about having a psych history and some labels to go along with. I’m a psychiatric rights advocate and I don’t see why I should pretend that I’m the one who’s uncomfortable with that, nor that it’s my responsibility to keep my employers comfortable. It’s certainly an attitude that can drive a lot of employers away but the ones it doesn’t have been mostly nice people to work for and I’ve done okay.

11

I’ve never been diagnosed with any sort of mental health condition, so I would never compare myself to the OP.

I did want to briefly give my own thoughts and recent experiences regarding my own employment. Specifically regarding looking for less stressful work. I don’t want to give my exact age, suffice to say I’m on the cusp of middle age. With a very few exceptions most of my life I’ve spent working in either customer service, or some sort of retail. I’m not someone who deals well with high stress situations and needless to say, it was always pretty much hell every single second of it.

About a year ago I got a job working as a custodian for the local Community College. Physically it is more taxing than say dealing with the community or running a cash register, but the stress levels are almost non-existent. I don’t deal with the public, and I only see maybe two or three other people each night, and that’s including my own boss. Physically I’m healthier now then I probably have been in almost 10 years, and it’s done wonders for my own Mental Health. I make a little less now than I used to, but this was hands down the best decision I’ve ever made in my life. Not saying it’s necessarily right for everyone of course, but I could never ever see myself going back to such a high stress environment.

I think people in our society put sometimes too much emphasis on doing work that either pays well or perhaps is more “important” then lowly janitorial work. The amount of stress that I used to be under used to make it impossible for me to enjoy the other parts of my life.

That said I will say the way that companies treat retail workers, at least in this country I can’t speak to others, ought to be fucking criminal.

12

Strong disagree. If my manager doesn’t know I have a problem, he can’t help me, and he is legally required to comply with ADA regulations regarding reasonable accommodation.

He has to understand that I have less spoons than neurotypical people.

13

I totally agree with this.

The gotcha is all those laws are inapplicable or essentially unenforced as to small businesses. Who tend to have very much amateurs as managers.

If you’re working for a Mom-n-Pop store you’re totally at the mercy of the owner(s) / manager(s). They may be excellent caring people or they may simply be selfish shits who will refuse to hire someone who mentions any problems or scheduling limitations they may have. And if you keep it a secret until after being hired, you’ll get fired the first time your limitation interferes with their plan.

You working for a franchise of a national chain, such as you do at 7-11, is a lot closer to the Mom-n-Pop practically speaking than it is to Corporate America.

The job you take need not be an exalted one. But you’re a lot more likely to be hired and retained after admitting to problems / limitations if you’re working directly for a biggish corp with a real HR department and real regulatory compliance concerns. Which could well be a multi-state grocery chain.

It’s also true that a person who has scheduling limitations or intends to work less than a full 40 hours will do a lot better in an environment with a larger work crew. A store meant to be staffed by two people can’t have no-shows and stay open. An, e.g. warehouse, crew of 100 probably has 1 no-show every single shift and gets along OK.

14

I know “warehouse” was just an e.g. example, but I couldn’t work in a warehouse. I thrive in customer service. And have lifting limitations.

15

You might find yourself a receptionist job, all customer service, no lifting. Lots of medical fields are desperate for good front desk workers. And it doesn’t have to be a doctor’s office where you deal with sick patients. Optometrists, dentists, or chiropractors are all looking.

16

That’s an excellent suggestion! Friendly and outgoing is perfect for receptionist, less so for cashiers with metrics to hit.

17

The problem is, receptionists are usually full-time employees, who are the face of the company. That won’t work for ekedolphin. And no disrespect to the OP, but most companies don’t want a receptionist singing loudly at their visitors.

An employer is required to make reasonable accommodations for disabled people, but the person still has to be the right fit for the job. You can’t expect a company to hire a person who can’t lift more than 10 lbs for a warehouse job, or a person with agoraphobia to be a traveling sales person. Ekedolphin went from “Man, I love this job!” to calling a crisis hotline in a day. I understand it may be part of his illness, but can he handle the stress of a job? It seems the triggers for a breakdown are pretty low.

StG

18

There are part-time receptionist jobs at medical offices ( I’ve had doctors/dentists who work out of two different offices with different staff at each) - but the problem with those is that they tend to be one or maybe two people working at a time , which is going to have the same issues with unplanned absences as a store with only one or two people working at a time. A warehouse wouldn’t work if you have lifting limitations, but what about a larger store - a supermarket or a Target? They usually have 1) enough people that one no show doesn’t matter and 2) a lot of employees so the same three people aren’t getting calls to fill in.

19

Supermarket cashier? Some supermarkets are large enough to cope with unexpected time off.

20

Disclaimer- I have not read the 7-11 thread.

I was on SSD/SSI for over a decade due to crippling depression. I worked under the table as a home health aid (part time) for a few years. I felt that the time had come to try a ‘real job’. I was lucky enough to find a company that prides itself on hiring the neurodivergent. During the interview, I didn’t need to explain the gaps in my resume. The contract I was on ended. I moved to full time work.

I was recently demoted (They never used that word. But I went from having security clearance to not having security clearance- and my pay was reduced by $2.50 or so an hour.). I failed to achieve the necessary quality control scores due to anxiety issues. I’m doing pretty well at my current position. The company knows I have issues. They have made very clear who I should reach out to if my issues get to be too big a problem.

I’m not really familiar with the ADA. My personal policy is to have a saftey net and supports in place before you need them. That would mean disclosing to the relevant people.