The Walking Dead; 5.01 "No Santuary" (open spoilers)

[Human_Action]

@Skald_the_Rhymer

Yours was the name I could not recall (and was too lazy to look up). I’m pretty sure I mocked you viciously at the time, so I’ll say here that you were right and I was wrong.

That said, I disagree that altruism never pays off. Consider Michonne.

That’s considerate of you, but it’s probably giving the writers too much credit to assume they were setting up the current moral decay that far back.

Re: Michonne, can you be more specific? She displayed altruism in rescuing Andrea, and for her trouble had to haul around and protect a sick woman, who ultimately betrayed her. Michonne ended up hunted through the woods, alone, while Andrea luxuriated on silk sheets back in Woodbury.

@Skald_the_Rhymer

Incidentally, I can understand why our protagonists consider the idea of turning into walker to be the worst thing imaginable. Even aside from the degrading nature of such a transformation, it’s to show that they are not completely corrupt yet.

The worst thing Rick can imagine is not dying; it’s not even being eaten alive. It’s turning into a zombie and killing Carl or Judith–and maybe Michonne at this point. There are things that matter to Rick more than his own life, and likewise all the other protagonists. Which is a good thing. None of the Terminus people cared about anything but himself by the end. I write “himself” on purpose, by the way, because I mean it to be singular. They’d gotten so evil that they were willing to eat their own.

Rick, et al, are not to that point. If Judith or Carl died, they would not eat them.

Were they eating their own, or just the hapless folks they lured in? They certainly seemed to care about each other, they had an elaborate shrine to their fallen members, shared looted goods, and didn’t engage in the sort of casual intra-group murder that characterized the group Daryl briefly fell in with.

I’d also note that if the worst thing one can imagine is becoming a walking corpse that devours its loved ones, condemning others to that fate is a profoundly meaningful moral act.

@EllisDee

No theory, it is confirmed. That was the rapist we see in the last scene of the episode, the flashback to rapin’ time. He was the Head Rapist In Charge who smacks the guy comforting the woman. “No, it is definitely not okay.”

There is a distinguishing tattoo you can see that confirms this, though it’s a bit tough to see clearly even in HD. On rewatch I was able to make it out when I knew what I was looking for. (They also said that’s who it was on Talking Dead.)

I didn’t notice that, thanks!

@Hentor_the_Barbarian

I disagree. Rick’s choice was definitely unilateral, and was arguably - but not indubitably - correct. However, it was clearly and indisputably more conducive to the stability of the group. If he had brought the issue to the group for decision, there would have been division over the punishment. Daryl would not have allowed her to be exiled alone. Also, Tyrese clearly wanted vengeance.

I dispute the conclusion that it was indisputably more conducive to the stability of the group. It establishes that anyone can do whatever they want at any time, regardless of the impact it has on others in the group (or, that only Rick is permitted to do this). In a group of several dozen people, there must be some mechanism to make difficult, collective decisions in the face of inflamed passions, or the group will fall apart. Kicking the can down the road by having one guy make the decision unilaterally only defers this process, and worsens it, as now everyone has a legitimate gripe: the people who disagree with the decision, and the people who agree with it but not the way in which it was made.

The show may or may not depict the consequence of Rick kicking the can down the road. I certainly hope it does; he solved nothing, but the Governor’s attack distracted us from this.

[EllisDee]

@Human_Action

Were they eating their own, or just the hapless folks they lured in? They certainly seemed to care about each other, they had an elaborate shrine to their fallen members, shared looted goods, and didn’t engage in the sort of casual intra-group murder that characterized the group Daryl briefly fell in with.

In terms of what was shown, we don’t know for sure. Best guess would be that they only eat strangers lured in by the signs.

On the Talking Dead, however, they point out that the dead body on the table being cleaned and butchered in this episode is related to main bad guys; I think they said the main guy’s brother / Mary’s other son. Essentially, the terminus folks have completely gone over the deep end. Not that they killed him for food, but that hey, my brother’s dead…my tasty, tasty brother.

@Human_Action

It establishes that anyone can do whatever they want at any time, regardless of the impact it has on others in the group (or, that only Rick is permitted to do this).

I think Rick has special status in the group, where they all really want him to be the leader. They’ll form up and lead by committee if they absolutely have to, like if Rick decides to leave it all behind and become a farmer. But the moment Rick wants to lead again, they all breathe a sigh of relief and gladly let him.

In that context, I don’t think Rick making unilateral leadership decisions is destabilizing for the group, while someone else doing so (eg: Carol) could be. Especially this example, where Rick’s unilateral decision is all better now, Carol’s exile is over, no harm no foul. Carol’s unilateral decision is still painful for Tyreese, I imagine, since his girlfriend is still dead.

[chinchalinchin]

Did anyone notice one of the tattoos on Head Rapist Imprisoned in Boxcar is the exact same symbol that Morgan finds on the tree at the end of the episode? Are we getting a bit of foreshadowing or is it just a coincidence?

Also, I thought I would point out that the sign Rick crosses out with mud, when Morgan finds it, is covered in vines, implying a significant time skip. So the Morgan scene presumably takes place a few months after the Terminus incident. Which makes me wonder if Morgan will ever meet up with the group again. We assume he is, because why show us Morgan again if he’s not going to become part of the show? But then it occurred to me, what if the after-credits scene is a lead-in to the spinoff series and Lennie James is going to be the main character?

Anyway, just my two cents.

[levdrakon]

The spin-off will take place in Detroit though, right? It might also chronicle events from the beginning of the outbreak. Morgan wouldn’t be able to join the spin-off until it catches up with Walking Dead.

Morgan is pretty interesting though. He seemed pretty clean and well-equipped. And what’s up with the face mask? It almost seemed like maybe someone had equipped him and sent him off on a specific, mysterious mission involving Rick’s group. But why? Unless he’s not after Rick’s group, but the guy with “the cure.” Does he have good intentions, or bad intentions? Is he sane, or insane bent on some sort of revenge for being left behind?

Did they switch babies? I thought the baby was bigger last season and smaller now.

[obfusciatrist]

@carnivorousplant

I would not think she would part from it going to a new place.

Just rewatched the scene and this is what Rick said about the contents of the bag:

There’s guns in it. AK-47, .44 magnum, automatic weapons, night scope, there’s a compound bow, and a machete with a red handle. That’s what I’m going to use to kill you.

The machete must be what I’d remembered as Michonne’s sword.