Ah. I didn’t realize it was Robert E. Lee’s flag.
Still, given the large number of confederate flags that had some official status, or a greater connection to a particular state like South Carolina or Georgia, isn’t the selection of that one *after *the Klan claimed it pretty suspect? (I mean, apart from it being suspect in and of itself as the symbol of rebel nation founded on white supremacy for the purpose of preserving slaver.)
Absolutely.
Hey I like your idea here and in general I really like 90% or 99% of your posts, I learn a lot from you. In this one situation I would suggest a slight change, use the German/Nazi SS symbol, it’s slightly less problematic. People are allways going to “devils advocate” that the KKK and the CSA are not - exactly - the same. Though, in reality, the horrors of Southern Slavery are actually worse than anything the KKK has done. At least in terms of scale/numbers affected. But back to my point, comparing it to the SS would be easier in avoiding getting the discussion derailed by others. Also, the Nazi’s/Swastika are pretty much just as bad as the CSA* but to compare the two will also get slots of derailment.
*Edit Window: Will clarify in the next post
Which is worse? An atrocity that is a 10 on a scale of 1-10 (Nazi’s and Concentration Camps) compared to a 9 out of 10 atrocity (when comparing a Southern Plantation to a Concentration Camp). One is - slightly - worse but that went on for a couple of decades whereas Slavery in the USA went on for 200+ years.
Well, well… Walmart announces it is removing “all items” promoting the Confederate flag for sale.
Y’all, put a fork in the old saltire, boys…
What we’re saying is not that, by using the flag as he does, West does not hate black people. What we are saying is that West is a self-aggrandizing, money-grubbing, moron with no sensitivity to the feelings of anyone but himself. But we knew that already. The flag is just another layer of icing on the cake.
You mean “claiming it.” That flag was pointedly never theirs to begin with.
Fair point.
Excellent! Baby steps, but good baby steps.
I see where you’re going, but the problem with the swastika is threefold:
I think the white hood remains the better analogy for these reasons.
Ok, yeah, I think I have to agree with you. Both were bad but the Nazi’s were even worse.
The swastika also predates the Nazis by such a huge margin, and is still in use in many parts of Asia under its original, non-racist meaning, that a case could be made that it’s time to let the Nazi associations die and reclaim the swastika as a non-evil symbol. The Confederate Battle Flag, on the other hand, was designed for a racist regime and has always represented, in one way or another, the ideals of that regime. I don’t see that there’s anything there to reclaim. Just let the symbol itself die. If Southerners really want a symbol to represent non-racist pride in their region, let them design a new one that wasn’t created for the Confederacy. (Though, as others have noted, no other region of the United States has its own regional symbols or flags. I don’t understand why Southerners think they need one if it’s not part of a pro-CSA “the South shall rise again” narrative. But then, I’m not a Southerner, so I don’t have any innate pride in the region.)
To be fair, there is a reason for needing one. billfish knows it. Unfortunately, it’s sooper secret, so he’s not gonna tell us. I’ve been a Southerner all my life, and I think there’s a lot of great stuff about the South, stuff to be proud of, and I don’t know of the reason. But there must be one, because if there weren’t, he’d be engaging in hilariously empty bloviating.
Let’s not make this personal.
Knock it off.
[ /Moderating ]
OK
That aside, there’s a reasonable point there.
billfish678, would you kindly explain exactly why you feel the need to support the use of the Confederate Flag? I mean, it sounds like your whole argument boils down to “because I wanna, and fuck anyone who’s offended.” And I’m pretty sure that’s not really how you’re intending to come across.
Well that does indeed seem to be one aspect of the modern use of the flag.
The rebel sentiment.
That’s why it is also flown in other countries and biker gangs etc.
Yes, but that is not what it means when a “good ole boy” in Alabama has it airbrushed on the hood of his truck
Why not?
Do you think he sports it to say: “Look everyone, I’m a racist and proud of it!”?
Do you live in Alabama?
Maybe, maybe not - but at least I’d expect him to be conscious of the origin of the flag. Lots of rockers and bikers outside the US don’t even know where it comes from; I’m remembering some dudes who only ever knew it as “the rebel flag”, they didn’t even know there was any relationship with it and the CSA or with the American Civil War.
Is that a yes?
I suppose it could be, I indeed do not live there, but of the two (or more) sentiments attached to the flag, I don’t think “Look I’m a racist” is the most likely.
True. I would assume someone from Alabama to know the racial connotations.
Then again it would have the added value that it was their flag.
However that pride might be displaced.