The claims made by the lawyers is not evidence. Where are the people who were there that night saying they heard two shots? Where is anyone who was there that heard a shot, someone crying for help , and then another shot.
Yes, I got the names wrong. Sorry.
here’s the initial report
It doesn’t cover the questioning at the station. It does say that Z’man was bloody and treated on site.
“my own witness” has been linked numerously at this point. this thread is 7 pages long and i don’t feel the need to re-post all seven pages for you just because you got here late.
the links are there–go back and find them. several witnesses have said they heard two gun shots and a child’s screams.
and, for that matter–what arbitrary distinction are you making as to what constitutes a “child?”
17 is his age–you’re right, that’s a fact. and the fact is he’s a minor. which is what the witnesses are deferring to as “a child.” legally, he was a child. even if you want to round up to manhood. i can’t help what they said–i can’t help that they call the screams of a dying minor a child–but that’s what he is and that’s what they said they heard, even if the screams you’ve imagined in your head sound like an older guy.
as to how many shots were fired–it’s ultimately arbitrary.
you said “where did that come from? this is the first i’ve ever heard of two shots being fired.”
ok, but if you’re following the case as you claim, following it closely, you might have heard about it, i’d think–as i just posted NUMEROUS accounts of multiple gunshots and NUMEROUS rebuttals to those accounts. whether you but it or not doesn’t matter–it’s one thing to say it’s unknowable who many shots were fired, or to say it’s a point of contention. but you said you’d never heard it even be suggested there were more than one shot–and it was in the first article i read about the case. and numerous ones there-after.
and in the great many other i posted. their veracity is, again, moot and unknowable–but this started with you being ignorant to the fact it was a point at all, much less one of contention.
again, numerous links throughout this thread, go click them.
again, we can debate if it was one or two til the cows come home–the point was to introduce you to the concept of which you were claiming to be totally ignorant of.
nice try, pal.
you’re not shoveling off *your *burden of proof onto me.
i’ve pointed out the police have not commented on the forensic firearm data.
if you want to maintain they have indeed commented–feel free to post proof.
otherwise, bullshit.
You never tire of being wrong.
“Zimmerman then shot Martin once in the chest from very close range, authorities said”
Terr, that does not disprove anything. How many bullets were fired into the chest of Martin has nothing to do with how many total shots were fired. What if the first shot ended up buried in the grass. I’m not saying that there were two shots at all, I’m just saying that your ‘proof’, that the report indicates one gunshot wound to the chest in no way precludes that the gun was fired more than once. Again, I’m not saying it was, just that you haven’t disproved anything.
Read dontbesojumpy’s fantasies in this thread. That’s what I have been responding to:
*
"the described “screams of a child” were, by all accounts, those of Martin after the first gunshot, before the second which silenced him.
i’m fairly certain that a 17 year old “man” is going to default to a fairly primitive sound when hot bullets enter him."*
Like I said, I’m not agreeing with anyone. I’m not taking a position on the number of gunshots. I thought I made that clear.
I’m simply saying that your proof of a single gunshot is not proof of that at all. All it is is a police statement of how many bullets wound up in Martin’s chest. Not how many total were fired. Other evidence may show that there was only one shot fired that night, but your cited ‘proof’ doesn’t disprove anything.
It shows Martin was hit with one bullet. Which was in response to dontbesojumpy’s fantasies of multiple bullets hitting Martin. As I explained already, and you ignored.
But dontbesojumpy didn’t say he had been hit twice. he said there was a first shot that caused the victim to scream, then a second shot that killed him. Did he say that the first shot hit the victim also?
headline: POLICE LEAK DETAILS…
nothing about this leaves any doubts to the veracity of the details. sounds real official and everything!
nope. nothing to doubt any of that at all.
and how many times martin was shot vs how many times the gun was fired are in no way required to be the same.
and, to repeat, how many times the gun was fired is arbitrary. **Cosmodan **said:
to which i pointed him to a series of various quotes, none of which are ‘my fantasies,’ my hypothesis nor my opinion. they are simply quotes:
plus a handful of others plus many other embedded further back in the thread.
i never claimed this was true, i’m just pointing out the “thing he’d never heard of” is totally a thing.
Cite.
So, one shot gone from Zimmerman’s gun, one shell casing, one gunshot wound on Martin. I don’t think it really matters what people think they heard - there was one shot fired that night. Therefore, anyone who believes “I heard one shot, then Martin was begging for his life, then Zimmerman finished him off with another shot” is wrong beyond a reasonable doubt.
Like hell they’re not - what do you think, Martin was shot from the grassy knoll?
Regards,
Shodan
“i’m fairly certain that a 17 year old “man” is going to default to a fairly primitive sound when hot bullets enter him.”
you’re right–there’s no mechanical way that a gun can fire a bullet that doesn’t hit someone. guns don’t ever miss. if someone has one bullet in them, then whatever gun shot them MUST have only been fired once. ever.
sound logic. who can argue that.
i get it–quote the part that supports you, ignore that devilish caveat that doesn’t.
and sweet zombie jesus, the “cite” you posted reads real huge at the top, in bold red letters:
The Incompetence of the Sanford PD
and goes on to lambast them for NOT DOING:
A standard police investigation would have (a) secured the area and documented the location of the body as a crime scene, (b) held Mr. Zimmerman for drug and alcohol testing, (c) ***held Mr. Zimmerman’s weapon for ballistic testing to verify that it was the weapon that killed the deceased,
and then goes on to say:
not anywhere does it say how many shots were fired…
i’m just not sure how a cite defaming the investigating officers compels you as proof of anything they claim…? the entire article is a compendium of their fuck-ups…
and THIS is what you rely on as testament of their claim…? not to be a pill, but even if they honestly only recovered a single shell casing, what compelling reason does anyone have, based on this cite you’ve provided, that they did a thorough enough job to be sure there weren’t others?
i’ll go on say once again: it’s moot and arbitrary how many shots were fired. the quotes i’ve provided were to point out to cosmodan that it “was a thing” since he’d never heard anything about two shots.
“The only bullet missing was the one in the chamber.”
Would be a cool trick firing multiple shots with one bullet.
I’d rather not download that link onto my IPhone.
Is this what you linked to?http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/MSNBC/Sections/NEWS/120226_TrayvonMartinPoliceReport.pdf
This came up in another thread when Terr challenged my citing a Miami Herald article that mentioned the initial report said nothing about any injuries to Zimmerman. It was pointed out that there are actually two reports in this. The first, filed by officer Ayalla doesn’t mention any injuries, while the second report filed by officer Smith mentioned a bloody nose and scratches on the back of the head.
Terr tried to redefine the term “initial” and have us throw out Officer Ayalla’s report and only look at Officer Smith’s report but we pointed out this was ludicrous.
If, and it’s a big if, Zimmerman actually had any injuries, they were extremely minor and completely with the claims put forward by Zimmerman and his family that Trayvon Martin was on top of him for about a minute punching him in the face and smashing his head into the concrete.
you’re quoting a conversation about if the screams were trayvon’s or not.
i, in no way, attested to how many times he was shot.
^that.
You can tell from the reports that officer Smith was the first on the scene and saw the blood. Officer Ayala mentions that in his report, that other officers were already there. Smith was the one who cuffed Z’man and took possession of the weapon. so, Smith’s version is the one that counts.
I understand what you’re saying about the fight and the video but it is still inconclusive. There’s a difference between a struggle with a few blows and a sever beating. since Martin was killed some sign of a beating is what we want to see, but we don’t know how sever it was. A person can have a broken nose and not even know it until it’s checked out. An officer does look at the back of his head in the video which seems to indicate a head wound of some sort. Just not as sever as we might expect from a life and death struggle.
I asked about Martin going for Z’man’s gun because IMO, that could easily cause someone to panic and shoot. That’s not saying I take Z’man’s word for it all. I think who was the initial aggressor is still in question. I’m just sorting the details that are available.