Things a wife won't do?

Back to Monty’s post-it’s kind of interesting that guys will date, marry, have children with a stripper, etc. and THEN have a problem with what they are doing. Then they (men) don’t like it? Still, I am going with my original Madonna/Whore complex theory. Pretty soon this is going to be a Pit subject.

The kinkier the better, as long as the kinks correspond to mine. No terrible moral judgements on kinks that are different – just a minus for compatibility if these are actually unpleasant to me.

Maybe it’s a contrasts thing…in my case, it became apparent early on that I wasn’t a likely candidate to play the experienced naughty seducer to my women associates’ innocent naif, but I do recall that during my virgin years I daydreamed about becoming the boyfriend of an otherwise jaded, very experienced woman who would like it that I hadn’t done everything she had. And yes, I certainly would have respected her for her experience and sexual joie de vivre (did I spell that right?)


Designated Optional Signature at Bottom of Post

Apart from the madonna/whore complex, there is also the “socially presentable” issue. Maybe you could love and respect a stripper, porn star or whatever, but never marry her because of what people might think. That would make her “not marriage material”.

Another issue is that you might not want such a woman to have and raise your children. Even if what you do in bed is perfectly okay with both of you and there is no moral problem or anything, you may not want to have your kids grow up to the same lifestyle. For what it’s worth, I sure don’t want my kids to be just like me, because I have more than enough personal faults and problems (like spending hours on the internet instead of working :-)) that I’d like to spare them. Then again, perhaps I don’t really respect myself. Maybe I am not marriage material…

Holger

I think you need to be careful about stereotyping “the male mind.” I am sure that there are people out there who want others to perform certain acts, and then revile them for it. I think that’s sicko behaviour, and it’s certainly a small minority, but it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

::: leaping up to soapbox ::: Hey, one of the big problems today, IMHO, is the way that so many women talk about “all men”, whether in conversation or in jokes. Stereotyping. Bah.

There’s a fine point here:

Personally, though I think it goes for most men, I wouldn’t be suggesting any activity that would make me disrespect my partner who did it with me and therefore make marriage inadvisable.

However, there are certainly things that a woman might initiate that I might not be comfortable with (e.g. partner swapping). If said partner was intent on having those things as part of her sex life, then I think we’d be incompatible as spouses. I’ll even take it a step further and say that with some (e.g. infidelity again) it would be a big red flag for a woman even to suggest them…

So that’s my take: if I suggest it, I’m okay with it, QED. But there are things that would make me say “no” to marriage with that person, though I’d not be the one initiating them. And that goes even beyond the realm of sexuality. If a woman I was dating suggested we go out and steal a car for laughs or shoot up heroin, I’d probably be thinking “this isn’t the one for me” too.

Monty2 - you are asking if a man would ask a woman to engage in an activity which he would disrespect her for doing. Fortunately, not all men are like this, unfortunately, there are some out there. If a man does this, he probably subconciously thinks there is something wrong with what he is requesting, and rather than dealing with that, he will project his feelings on to his partner. So if a man does this, it’s him that ain’t marriage material! Avoid him like the plague.

I know a man who likes to see strippers. I don’t have any problem with that. However, he got married and would not ask his wife to “strip” for him. Not that she refused, he never gave her a chance. He became obsessed with stripping and escalated his behavior. Last I heard, he was soliciting prostitutes. He was risking his life, and his wife’s, because there were things he wanted sexually that he could not or would not ask his wife to do.


Mastery is not perfection but a journey, and the true master must be willing to try and fail and try again

Good point, Z, but the question is premised on the fact that he WILL ask, so we’re moving into a new realm here. That is the question of how to deal with it if there are things a man wants that he DOESN’T ask for and how to deal with that…

Or, also a possibility, the situation where we have things he does ask for that the woman is uncomfortable with/won’t do. To me, that’s simply the reverse of the situation I gave above and indicates a warning flag of incompatibility. Big problem if it happens AFTER the marriage rather than just in a “is this the one” scenario…

This question did remind me of something I saw in Ann Landers years ago that burned me up… a man submitted a list of “warning signs” that he’d made up for his sons so they’d know that their girlfriend was not relationship material and he thought Ann should print them for the benefit of other men. Among these signs were “if she can take her pantyhose off in less than 10 seconds, you know she’s had a lot of ‘practice.’”

For the love of God, that list was stupid. All of the scenarios came down to, if you propose something sexual and she says “yes,” she’s a slut and you shouldn’t have a relationship with her. But what about the guy who proposed these things to begin with?? And the pantyhose statement really got my goat. If he’s dating a professional woman who’s expected to wear pantyhose every day of her life, she will have had plenty of “practice” taking it off, regardless of whether she engages in a sexual activity immediately afterwards.

I can’t remember what Ann’s response was, but I’d like to think that even she thought the guy was a toad. I’m not really going anywhere with this, I just thought I’d toss it out.


“I hope life isn’t a big joke, because I don’t get it,” Jack Handy

Rereading my post, I realized I slipped from plural to singular, making it look like there were many sons sharing one girl. No, I meant the man made a list so that his sons would know whether their girlfriends were relationship material. No need to make him seem even more hypocritical than necessary by suggesting that he didn’t see anything wrong with his sons, only the girl, if they engaged in one big family gang-bang.


“I hope life isn’t a big joke, because I don’t get it,” Jack Handy

Didn’t we have a similiar topic on the old AOL board? JWB or whoever was trying to say it was okay to try to convince your girlfriend to have sex with you, but then dump her if she said yes. This was about religious morality, so this person wasn’t going to actually sleep with his girlfriend, just ‘test’ her with a mind game. Sick.


Neil

“. . .they could as easily have been carrying euphoniums and wearing war paint for all the notice their quarry would have taken of them.”
-Douglas Adams, “Life, the Universe, and Everything”

Taking the original post at face value- if you propose something to your SO, she goes along with it exactly as you had planned, and you lose respect for her because of it then you’re somewhere between a hypocrite and an idiot. However,what if it doesn’t turn out like you expected? You ask him/her to do something and he/she does a warped version of what you had envisioned?

I’m keeping this purposefully vague to prevent self-incrimination.

Mojo:

Nothing “wrong” with that situation. Just like asking someone to try some new food and they try it but hate it.

On the other hand, if you kind of sounds like you’re also talking about a situation where you ask someone to do something and they think badly of you for requesting it.

In that case, I wouldn’t say they were hypocritical. It might just be something they really don’t like. However, it might be a really big deal to them. There’s not much you can do about it - just chalk it up to incompatibility.

Sometimes people’s kinks just aren’t the same.

It doesn’t make a lot of sense but unfortunately this attitude is rather prevalent amongst men. Not all (I consider myself an exception, thank you very much!). But the tendency of a man to think less of a woman for having sex on the first date–even if he’s the one she had sex with–definitely exists even amongst men with otherwise relatively advanced views on womanhood. I think logically men may realise the hypocrisy of it but it’s difficult to get rid of a lifetime of brainwashing.

Before you flame me please remember I do not fall into this category, in fact my most serious relationship ever started off as a one-night-stand and not once did I think less of her for it. I don’t condone or support that attitude, I just understand where it comes from.

Yeah, a lot of jerk-guys will think less of you if you do what they ask. These are the type of men that think of sex in terms of a power-game, along the lines of “I win if I get her to do it, she wins if she puts me off and still keeps me interested.”
This attitude fosters date-rape, frigidity, dishonesty, etc.
I guess if you’re both into those games, have fun. But I’d rather have a partner to make love to, not to win against.
-Quadell

It seems many here think such an attitude (thinking less of her for doing dirty deeds) is common. I can’t imagine that kind of thinking and believe they must be a small group. I wouldn’t marry her if she wasn’t sexualy compatible–and in my case that compatibility is pretty, joyfully wicked.

I suggest the marriage vows be changed to:

Will thou doest it outside, in the rain, under the sun, or on a train? Will you promise to do it like a dog, go down South, and let him come in your mouth? Will you sir, crawl on the floor, lick her till she moans no more? Do you agree till death do you part to respect each other with whips and chains? I now pronounce you husband and wife. He is your husband, she is your wife, don’t be shy, may all your fantasies be fufilled before you die. Amen.


There is no course of life so weak and sottish as that which is managed by order, method, and discipline. -Montaigne

I’m sorry and I apologize for my computers ignorance. No, I am not drunk–two glasses of wine WITH dinner, max.

Pooch,
Loved your wedding vows!!! :slight_smile:
Do you mind if I use them at my wedding?

I especially liked that licking part. :wink:

A couple of quick comments on this interesting thread, which has made me want to start a couple of surveys in the great debate group. Check there if you’re interested.

Actually, Sigmund Freud coined it way earlier.

But then again, and fess up now girls, don’t women expect men to make at least a half-hearted attempt of a pass on the first date? One that they can turn down, without embarrassment? I’ve got female friends who come home after a date where the guy did not make a hint of a pass or suggestion, out of politeness, as it turned out. They complain and ask what’s wrong with the guy.

CT


When in trouble or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout

I did NOT do that. I just hit “submit reply” and my damned browser sat here chuging for about ten minutes, before it went through sigh