please let me supply you with this:
/irony
… and taking care of stranded tourists whose money and passport were stolen is literally daily business (twice on weekends), together with repatriating dead people and facilitating lawyers for guys/gals in jail
Are we going too far? I do not have the power to enforce sanctions. I’m not sure anyone really knows the effects of sanctions given their coordination and complexity. They were done as a response to despicable and aggressive actions against innocent civilians. However, it is not ideal that others suffer because of the actions of a few.
what is interesting is the looming, wed. march 15th deadline on IIRC $115mio the russians possibly might default on…
Defaulting on 115 millions? …
I guess that also tells a lot about the condition russia is in …
(Didn’t Germany just announce to spend 100 billions additional on new weaponry? - that’s nearly factor 1000 here!)
If you don’t have money or credit to buy food or shelter, that certainly sounds like hardship to me.
I don’t get the impression that Thai authorities are going to let these wealthy Russian tourists starve to death or live homeless on their streets.
It would be bad for future business.
The Thai government is helping those who want to leave to find roundabout flights, and are finding them cheaper accommodations. The resorts are offering discounted rates and are likely willing to extend credit for now. It isn’t like the rooms are otherwise going to be filled.
Really it is reasonable to have concerns that sanctions negatively impact those who have no personal responsibility for the actions of those in charge. I’d argue that the alternatives are far far worse but no question the bulk of those of Russia and elsewhere enduring deprivations from sanctions going forward are not those who make the decisions.
But specifically worrying about these specific very privileged Russians seems misplaced.
I try to be concerned with the well-being of every living person.
So do I. Including the far greater number of living persons in Ukraine who are suffering far more than this. And whose suffering just might, in the long run, be eased by these sanctions.
Lifting the sanctions would do more harm than keeping them.
All are equal but some are more equal than others?
Personally I care less about some wealthy Russian vacationers having to extend their stays in slightly less luxurious suites than I do about the millions being displaced and the thousands being killed, and preventing the untold number of future deaths inaction would likely result in.
Yeah, the plight of the Russian tourists kind of reminds me when a roommate and I were watching an old pirate movie, and someone was banished to live in Tortuga. My roommate immediately laughed and said “Oh god, they have to live in Tortuga! The suffering!”
On the balance, I’d rather be homeless in Thailand than homeless in Ukraine. Not to mention, I’d also rather be homeless in Thailand than dead in Ukraine. So, my vote is that the sanctions could go further and I would not shed a tear.
The American embassy doesn’t actually facilitate lawyers for those Americans finding themselves in foreign jails. They provide them with a list of local lawyers who speak English. Here is a list of what the embassy can and cannot do:
Consular Assistance to U.S. Prisoners
When a U.S. citizen is arrested overseas, he or she may be initially confused and disoriented. They may be in unfamiliar surroundings and may not know the local language, customs, or legal system.
We Can:
- Provide a list of local attorneys who speak English
- Contact family, friends, or employers of the detained U.S. citizen (with their written >permission)
- Visit the detained U.S. citizen regularly and provide reading materials and vitamin supplements, where appropriate
- Ensure that prison officials are providing appropriate medical care
- Provide a general overview of the local criminal justice process
- Upon request, ensure that prison officials permit visits with a member of the clergy of the religion of the detainee’s choice
- Establish an OCS Trust, if necessary, so friends and family can transfer funds to imprisoned U.S. citizens
We Cannot:
- Get U.S. citizens out of jail
- State to a court that anyone is guilty or innocent
- Provide legal advice or represent U.S. citizens in court
- Serve as official interpreters or translators
- Pay legal, medical, or other fees
Get an under the table job. Become a prostitute. Beg in the street. Move to a flop house so it doesn’t cost as much to survive.
If I were in a bunch of say 50 mildly random people in a good climate [I think Thailand is warm and sort of tropical, maybe? not going to google it.] I would consider banding together to head to a beach or equivalent, set up an impromptu camp and post a standing watch schedule so people could sleep, go look for under the table work, beg or whatever and their belongings could remain safe. The watch of course would keep the locals from coming in to steal. Of course I might also have already sold everything except a backpack, a couple changes of underwear, another set of outerwear and my documents to have the money for a bit more survival.
yes, we did the same - hence “facilitate” (in the sense of making-it-easier) … give them a short-list of english-speaking lawyers, make sure they get their “free call”, inform family abroad (if so desired).
If the evildoer is nice and fully compliant, you might ask local police if they could give him/her a separate cell so he is not locked up with Jimmy, the crazy-axmurder and some drug-cartel-hitmen or so… (but thats mostly you knowing the local guys in charge of the show and not so much a “diplomatic” thing)
and then you graciously bow out and respect the local processes to take over… just to be called in 3 days later for the next one
anyhow 9 out of 10 times its “drunk/drugged fighting” and ends with a misdemeanor charge. The other more severe cases are being visited in jail periodically.
Also its not as if there weren’t warning signs that this was coming. Maybe the run up to your head of state turning your entire country is a pariah is not the best time to plan a vacation, and if you do decide to keep your plans, the entire world has declaring that they will isolate your home country might be an indication that it woudl be prudent to cut your vacation short.
Many excellent responses, but the biggest one is that let’s say that we constructed some plan that we have sanctions against Putin and the oligarchs, but muddle something together to not punish “regular people.” What’s to stop Putin from stealing the stuff going to “regular people” and keeping it for him and his oligarchs?
It’s like what we did in Somalia thirty years ago. The warlords are depriving people of food so we send “humanitarian aid” to the people. Minutes after “the people” are given food by the UN, the warlords forcibly take it from them and keep themselves fat and happy while the people starve. It is counterintuitive unless we have control of the situation, which we don’t.
Yes, but all things are not equal.
On the one hand, you have folks who have just had their apartment bombed by an enemy army who is trying to kill them, and then are actually killed by artillery shells while lining up for food.
On the other hand, you have some very wealthy tourists who are inconvenienced, and will have to perhaps stay longer in their tourist destination, maybe even in a less desireable hotel. Heavens! The bar might not have the kind of scotch they like!
These things are not the same. One group needs our support and concern and ACTIONS more than the other.
Yeah, Putin telegraphed this pretty damn obviously.
Yep.
Is there any existing law that would permit the government to do so? My understanding is that sanctions allow the government to freeze assets but not to use them for its own purposes.
Probably not- but I’d still like to see it.
I read an article about a Ukrainian computer programmer who got stuck in Spain because of the war. Rather than complain about it, he organized a bunch of other stranded Ukrainian IT professionals and started hacking Russian government propaganda sites.
Or at the very least stockpile cash while you still can.