This thread on Trans Ettiquette. What the fucking fuck.

This is of course, after seeking and finding that the trans person wanted you to tell everyone about it.

Would you act any differently if they were not wishing for you to tell everyone, or does your etiquette supersede their wishes?

Except we know from the OP in question that Jane keeps quiet about the transition, and lots of her friends don’t know about it. Surely that ought to make a difference…

You’re addressing someone who insists on forcing her morals upon everyone else:

I do love tacos… :slight_smile:

Only if the person who made the remark also knew Jane doesn’t tell any of her new friends about the transition. Given the Jane is still hanging out with some of the same people who knew her as John, he probably assumed the transition is common knowledge.

If a trans friend had asked for my secrecy about their transition, I wouldn’t mention it, unless some matter of law or safety required it. Otherwise it’s just a part of our shared history that could potentially come up in conversation if we start talking about the past.

I would assume the other route, personally, and assume that people generally do not like their personal lives discussed behind their back without asking them first.

I would take the opposite tack. If I knew that Jane routinely talked about it, I would likely mention it. Otherwise, I probably wouldn’t.

Yes, this.

But, and this is a terrible thing to admit, but the only time that I noticed that one of my neighbors was in the process was when I was talking to her partner and called her John. He just said “Jane”, so I figured that I had just forgotten and corrected myself.

Of course, I never comment on someone’s appearance unless they have asked me to do so. Even then, I never say something bad unless its a very close friend who is not happy with their new whatever. Then I tell the truth, otherwise, if I don’t like it I say something like “Oh, that is very colorful/interesting/clever/whatever.” No reason to say that I think that their choices don’t match my personal taste.

It’s surprising to me, though perhaps it shouldn’t be, that we have people who have little or no experience with transgender /transitioning, and yet they are still insisting that their thoughts on the matter trump the actual experience of an actual transwoman in the thread!

Also, I would always assume that someone doesn’t consider their personal history to be part of everyone’s shared history by default. If someone wants to tell everyone, they can. It’s not my place to do it. And deadnaming someone is never a sign of acceptance of gender identity. It may be done out of ignorance, or by accident, but don’t do that and be proud of your tolerance.

I can’t speak for anyone else but because I don’t know any transgender people, the SDMB is pretty much the only place I get to find out more about their issues in an “interactive” sense (ie not just Buzzfeed posts where everyone high-fives themselves for being so tolerant and woke). Personally I think this thread is drifting into that territory, but for now there’s still the possibility of further intelligent discussion.

It’s a matter of public record I don’t give a flying fuck which toilet people use - again, I can only speak for myself when I say my purpose in visiting the men’s room is to attend to my business then leave, so I don’t care who else is in there. Wear what you like, call yourself what you like. As long as you’re happy, that’s the main thing.

But don’t portray everyone who isn’t 10001% on board with outwardly expressing who you are into some kind of asshole, monster, or hate-filled something-ist. To quote Rebecca Bunch, the situation’s a lot more nuanced than that.

I appreciate your attempt at nuance, truly.

But honestly, shit is so dire for trans people in this country that it’s kind of hard not to characterize detractors that way. Our culture is highly aggressive toward people who slip out of their proscribed gender expression to the point that it affects their physical safety, their livelihood, even whether they have a roof over their head. The stats are mind-bogglingly bad. So in that context, yeah, it’s hard to swallow the ‘‘yeah-buts’’ coming from people who have no clue. I would argue that statistically the trans population is one of the most vulnerable in this country, period. Are you aware that 60% of homeless youth are LGBT? Rates of sexual assault, physical assault, homelessness, getting thrown out of apartments, being fired, are off the charts relative to the general population. Given these statistics, if we err on the side of being overprotective I can’t see that as a bad thing.

:dubious: What does the euphemism “not 10001% on board with outwardly expressing who you are” actually mean in terms of specific behavior?

Because if it includes privacy-invading gossip about someone’s gender identity, or derogatory language about a particular category of gender identity, then I think it’s perfectly reasonable to describe that behavior as being, at the very least, “some kind of asshole”.

No you don’t, nobody does that. Everybody claims to, nobody does it.

…I think that you actually do.

No, I’m pretty sure I don’t, but thanks for presuming to know the people in my social & professional circles better than I do.

Not doing it is fourth-grade behavior. Well, it should be; sadly, there were people still doing it by the time I got to college. There’s a guy I would have been perfectly happy to date if he’d asked me instead of some bitch who told him that I did have a boyfriend back home :stuck_out_tongue: (I didn’t, but she liked the guy and apparently was of the “if he’s not mine he won’t be nobody else’s” mindset :smack:).

When my youngest brother asked me “how do I go about finding out if a girl would like to go out with me?” I said “ask her”. That particular one turned out to have a boyfriend, but others did not. Asking them directly is so much more efficient than going 'round the back…

…I’m actually presuming you are participating on this thread, on this message board, with real actual people. This is part of your social circle.

No, it’s not. I don’t “know” most of the people on this board; most of the posters here are effectively NPCs from my perspective. I’d be extraordinarily surprised if you considered me part of your social circle, for example, considering we never agree on anything despite being from the same country.

…of course you are part of my social circle. “Agreement” isn’t a requirement. If you are on this messageboard and if you are participating in this thread you both know and are communicating with transgender folk. Even if you want to pretend that you are not. But hey, I’m sure that they will be reassured that you consider them to be effectively NPC’s.