This thread on Trans Ettiquette. What the fucking fuck.

I consider most people I don’t know personally to be effectively NPCs, regardless of gender/ethnicity/favourite author.

And now I think about it, I’m trying to remember an interaction we’ve had where you weren’t rude or condescending to me and I’m not coming up with anything.

Yeah, I actually do it, too. Usually starting with “If this is too intrusive or none of my business you don’t have to answer, but I was wondering…” Which gives a person a perfect out if they don’t want to share. Because no matter how curious I am I am not entitled to private information about anyone, and they get to define private.

Huh?

This seems like something a person who loves to gossip would say.

No, no it doesn’t.

“No, I didn’t hear that. I didn’t get invited :frowning: How come they didn’t invite me? Now I’m so angry! :mad:”

There is no good gossip. If you are having a conversation with a person, talk about activities in YOUR life, or THEIR life. Not what other people are doing. It’s a simple concept, really.

Your appeal to a situation of a “lot more nuance” seems a little at odds with your characterization of the SDMB being “pretty much the only place” where your exposure to trans issues isn’t from virtue signallers (with even this thread heading that way, IYO). That doesn’t seem like a particularly nuanced view.

Shouldn’t you have PM’d me that remark?

‘‘Virtue signalling’’ is an abused word that often has no meaning other than, ‘‘I’m uncomfortable with other people talking openly about their values.’’ I’ve complained about virtue signalling in other threads, like the kind of stuff that gets people publicly ridiculed and fired for starting a taco stand, but this is not that, or even close to that. This is calling people out for being shitheads because they are hurting others.

Nah. I PM’d somebody else to discuss it without you knowing. That’s cool, right? :slight_smile:

Most people don’t.

I think anthropology likely disagrees with you. I’ve read serous hypotheses that language developed as a way for people to keep track of inter-tribe relationships.

yes, that’s a risk. But you don’t actually expect to be invited to every wedding you want to know about, do you? And surely you will learn eventually – perhaps you’d rather hear before it happens, no?

“Hey, Jane seems really down, do you know what’s up with her?”
Possible answers include:
“I hadn’t noticed. What’s for lunch today?”
“Yeah, her father just died. She said she’s trying to keep her mind off it, and doesn’t want to be reminded of it by everyone, though, so she prefers we not bring it up.”

That latter is completely real. It wasn’t a secret. Email about the death went out to her immediate team, and probably should have gone out to everyone she was likely to interact with. If every person who noticed she was down asked her why, she would have been miserable.

For that matter, when my father died, I did want condolences, and was happy to talk to friends about it, but I didn’t have the energy to tell everyone directly – it was actually rather painful to do so. I was grateful to friends who spread the news for me.

Is some discretion necessary when gossiping? Of course. But some gossip keeps the social gears greased.

Or celebrities. You’re always allowed to gossip about celebrities.

Sure, if they wanted me to hear about it, then they would tell me. Again, it’s simple.

Sharing of public knowledge is not what I would consider gossip.

Maybe that’s MY issue. I don’t give a shit about social gears, nor keeping them greased.

Those aren’t people!

Neither are all the NPCs inhabiting this message board.

Yeah.

My Aunt kind of raised me with a general rule of thumb that you shouldn’t say anything about anyone that you wouldn’t repeat to their face. She stood by that, too, even when the things she said were harsh and the consequences were not great. Basically I was taught that you have to have accountability for your words.

I would make some exceptions for people I hate, but that is a very small number of people.

I know right? That’s why I don’t treat them as people either :slight_smile:

Well there’s your problem.

See, we human beings have to live with each other. And lots and lots of you all are just horrible people. So how the fuck are we supposed to live and work with each other without killing each other?

The answer is that the social gears have to be kept greased. You can’t, you just can’t, treat people like NPCs. They’re actual people. I know you don’t care about the checkout person at the supermarket, and neither do I. But I’m polite to them, because they’re not an NPC.

Also, because I know I’m kind of an asshole, I make an effort to not seem like an asshole. It’s difficult, because my natural reaction isn’t to be nice to people, but I make an effort.

This message board is packed to the gills with Aspergery people. And the Aspergery people are constantly getting their feelings hurt because they don’t understand why the hu-mons engage in their illogical rituals. Except this is your chance to learn why the regular hu-mons do what they do. Let’s use logic here. When you do X you get response Y which you don’t want. So don’t do X? See? It’s logic! You absolutely can use logic to understand and navigate the social pitfalls of the illogical hu-mon society you find yourself stranded in. That doesn’t mean you have to become socially conforming and fit in, but at least you’ll understand the likely outcomes when you buck social convention, and then you’re free to choose to either break that convention or not, depending on the cost and the benefit.

Well, since the OP kind of hinges on “is it public knowledge that the person transitioned?” that seems like an incredibly relevant exception.

Also, wfh? Upcoming marriages aren’t public knowledge in your world?

And not all public knowledge is cool to share. That was the distinction I was trying to make between good gossip and bad gossip. “Joe served time in prison” is probably public knowledge in a legal sense – probably anyone can look it up and verify that. But it’s still rude to bring it up.

Anyway, I think an important take-away is that even for people who are okay sharing public knowledge, it’s NOT okay to assume that “Jane used to be called Joe” is public knowledge. And also, even if it is, it might be rude to say so. You need to know Jane pretty well to know which it is, and if you aren’t sure, it’s best to default to “don’t bring it up.”

Also, unless I seriously mis-read the post that started this discussion, I’m pretty sure the person who said “I’ve known Jane since she was Joe” would have said that to Jane’s face. I think it was an unwise thing to say, but I doubt it was intended to be cruel. Probably, the speaker assumed it was public knowledge.

Maybe the former is why you get the latter. I’ve been on boards forever and never forget that there are living, breathing, feeling humans on the other end of my interactions. They’re not nothing.