What the fuck?! I’ve read over and over again that the Israelis response to the current intifada is “disproportionate”. This is the stupidest fucking thing I’ve heard in a long time.
Now don’t get me wrong, I have had huge problems with Israeli policy for years now. Many of the problems Israel faces, IMO, it has brought upon itself. But responding with their big guns to the Palestinians’ little guns is something I have no problem with.
How dare the Israelis use their helicopter gunships? Because they have them. If the Palestinians are using deadly force, of course the Israelis are going to use their deadly force back. If someone is throwing rocks at you, you aren’t going to put down your gun and pick up rocks to throw back at her. You’re gonna use your gun. And if someone is shooting at you, you’re not going to put down your bazooka to grab your rifle. It’s just fucking stupid to demand that the Israelis “fight fair”.
If you decide to fight the schoolyard bully, the bully ain’t cheating just because he can hit you harder than you can hit him.
So, my dear Palestinians, shoot away if you feel you must. You know the risks. Just don’t complain if the Israelis are better at the job than you are.
If the Palestinians sit quietly at home, the Israelis run tanks through their houses to clear land for more “settlers”. So doing nothing doesn’t buy the Palestinians any peace either.
And if an Israeli tries to make peace, the other Israelis murder him – look up “Yitzhak Rabin” some time.
The Israelis don’t require an excuse to be bullies.
I don’t see Sua’s post as biggoted at all. He was not vilifying any particular group, he was vilifying an attitude. I happen to agree with his position. If anything, I think the Israelis should be more aggressive right now, but that’s my opinion.
On the other hand, Achmed has proven himself to be a moron.
Yeah, Sua, your common-sensical take on conflict and strife is just sooooo bigoted.
On the other hand, I feel safe in saying that Sue Jo is an idiot. In fact, I also feel safe in saying that I’ve shat things with more brains than Sue Jo.
Why thank you, Sue Jo, for the kind words. Unfortunately, I lack full self-awareness, so if you could please clarify the nature of my endless bigotry, I would be most appreciative.
As you refer to my “reputation”, obviously I have unwittingly exposed myself as a bigot in my posts on this board. Could you please point out my bigoted comments, so that I may learn and grow, so as to reach my full potential?
Perhaps my confusion arises because I have an invalid definition of “bigotry”. From the context of this thread, I assume (which admittedly, given my stupidity, is a dumb thing to do) that you have detected an anti-Palestinian bias in me. If this is the case, I must defer to your greater insight, as I always interpreted the fact that I most often take the Arab side in Arab-Israeli debates on this thread as an indication that I wasn’t bigoted against Arabs.
But wait, perhaps you mean I’m anti-Semetic!! My active involvement in threads discussing Judaica must be a bit of self-deception - the “Some of my best posts are Jewish” syndrome.
Ahh, but you said “endless bigotry”. Since I haven’t posted all that often on Arab-Israeli threads ('cepten to slap down Mr. Bunnyhurt) perhaps you have noted that overall I display hatred and bigotry against all minorities. My vociferous arguments against profiling and my defense of Kwanzaa must have been simply code-word bigotry.
I want to be better, Sue Jo, and I think you are just the woman to help me. Please, let me suckle on the teat of your knowledge.
The reference in my OP to the “schoolyard bully” was intended to be an analogy to someone stronger than yourself, and was not intended to call Israel a bully. Whether Israel is or is not is beyond my knowledge, and is irrelevant to this thread.
The point, which went wooshing over too many heads, is not which side is right or wrong in the current fighting. The point, you yutzes, is that when you start a fight (and I don’t think that anyone, including the Palestinians, contests that the Palestinians started the current round of fighting - provocation or lack thereof being a different issue), it is ridiculous to expect the side you are fighting not to use whatever means they have at their disposal to fight back.
FWIW I understood where Sua was coming from and in no way detected bigotry (except that levelled against idiots perhaps).
In the little bit of martial arts I learned one thing has stuck with me. your first hit should be your last hit. Crouching Tiger/Hidden Dragon fight scenes are all well and nice but a competent martial artists will drop you with one hit. No dicking around with little punches tot he shoulder. You pop the asshole you’re fighting in the face as hard as you can and hope that leaves him sprawled on the ground. If it doesn’t he’s gonna get up and be mighty pissed at you.
As Sua noted this makes no judgement on the right or wrong of either fighter or whether or not they should even be fighting in the first place. It merely says that should you find yourself in a fight it is prudent to hit your opponent HARD rather than plinking at him. Anyhting else leaves the door open for retaliation. If you don’t believe me watch old Batman TV shows to see all the times the Joker and the Penguin didn’t put Batman down for good when they had the chance and see where that got them!
(And yes…I relaize brawls between two nations doesn’t equate very well with a bar brawl but take it for what it’s worth.)
I think seeing Israel and the Occupied Territories as “two nations” is where the argument goes awry. Throwing rocks at soldiers who are more than willing to shoot you isn’t a wise military tactic–it’s a symbolic display of protest.
This isn’t war. I don’t see how you can look at rock-throwing and call it “deadly force.” (Yes, I know that people are killed by rocks, but by and large, it isn’t an effective weapon.)
And I don’t see how 71-Hour Achmed said anything outrageous. Rabin was killed by extreme rightists.
Your example makes sense if you are thinking of a couple of Israeli tanks getting hit by rocks. The situation changes however if you are guards faced with 100 angry people throwing rocks at you. Rocks may not be as overtly lethal as a bullet but they can be quite dangerous and or deadly. 100 people throwing rocks at you is gonna hurt. Add to that scared guards holding guns and it’s easy to see how someone gets shot in that situation.
Also, don’t forget that some Palestinians will blow themselves up to take out a few Israelis. Again, you’re a gurad and don’t know if you’re facing a suicide bomber in the crowd. Another recipe for disaster.
I’ll admit the Israelis are far better armed overall but in the end don’t think of the Palestinians are incapable of serious harm just because some throw rocks.
I doubt the Israeli army is trained on the subtlety of rock fighting. In any event, those weren’t rocks the Palestinians were throwing on Tuesday. I think the israelis are doing the right thing by remaining consistent. It gives the message ‘any attack on us is an attack on yourselves’. If things keep going the way they are, the Palestinians are going to attack themselves right out of existence.
But a riotous crowd of a couple hundred people is a deadly force. All it takes is one random (and easily hidden) person with a pistol to turn the thing into a slaughter.
Quite frankly, if the Palestinians were only using rocks, I would have posted a very different Pit thread - I would have blasted the Israelis for their disproportionate response. In the Al-Aqsa intifada, however, quite a few Palestinians are using guns. The driving force behind this uprising are armed groups - Force 17, Hamas, Tanzim, etc.
No, Sua, helicopter gunships are a disproportionate response to a group of rock-throwers. Assuming the rock throwers have any serious chance of hurting somebody, a few rounds from an M-16 seem reasonable and prudent to me.
