Thoughts on Revenge of the Sith (unboxed spoilers)

Cafe Society
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That’s plural, too.

I’m inclined to think it’s a mistranslation of an ambiguous title, though. It doesn’t really make sense as a plural – unless it refers to the dead Sith’s revenge. Anakin didn’t extract any revenge for things done collectively to the Sith, and the there was only one other Sith around to take it.

The only time the word “revenge” occurs in the script, it refers to Anakin personally.

There’s no reason someone can’t produce a good translation of clear dialogue and get caught up on a tricky title. (“Return of the Jedi” is likely to be interpreted as singular even by people who don’t “get” the significance of the title. Most people assume that the Jedi referred to is Luke.)

Lucas has explicitly said that the “Jedi” of the ROTJ’s title is Anakin. Since the script of ROTS shares so many symmetries with ROTJ, I think it’s reasonable to conclude that the similarity and contrast of the titles is intentional. I haven’t heard Lucas say this out loud yet, but I have no doubt he will.

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I didn’t know that “minor resurgence” meant the stuff that happened in Episodes I-VI themselves, I thought you were talking about something earlier than that. If you consider what happened in I-VI “minor,” then I don’t want to be on your bad side. :slight_smile:

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To be fair, everyone in Clone Wars was a laughably efficient killing machine.

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:stuck_out_tongue:

“Minor” is, of course, relative – I was mostly referring to the length (thirty years at most, by my reckoning).

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My favorite line came from Yoda:

“Not if anything to say about it I have!”

Wishful thinking: the female Twi’lek Jedi who was killed should have had far more screen time. Damn! Schweet!

Strange viewer oversight: I didn’t even notice the room falling apart whilst Vader yelled “NOOOOOOOOOOO!” I suppose the problem was in my proximity to the screen - I was in the second row. I was pretty much forced to focus my attention on the character who was speaking, and that made everything else blurry and peripheral. Hopefully, my next viewing will be accomplished from farther back.

Thought:

I think I read this whole thread, and I don’t think anybody else brought this up. When Mace had Palpatine down, he said to Anakin, “He’s too dangerous to allow to live!” Exactly the same thing Palpatine said when Anakin had Dooku at his mercy. I thought that was a big factor in Anakin’s turning; it told him that the Jedi were not all they claimed to be, and it allowed him to justify, to himself, his own actions. He was hanging onto the last thread holding him to Jedi teaching, and Windu unintentionally cut that thread.

I also thought it was fascinating that all of Anakin’s actions, as he moved toward the dark side, were motivated by his love for Padme. The film demonstrated perfectly the old saying, “The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.”

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Pregnancy hormones?

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Apologies if any of this has been covered.

Here are my thoughts fresh from the theater. If I make any typos, it’s because the person who took my ticket cut off my hands. Apparently it’s required to even watch a Star Wars movie now.

Where to begin…“Love can’t save you. Only my new powers can save you.” :smack: In fact, every bit of dialog between Padme and Anakin was painfull.

How on earth was Anakin surprised that Padme was pregnant? Even assuming they hadn’t seen each other since their little wedding, how on earth did she and Anakin hug without him noticing? “Wow Padme, you were so depressed without me that you hit the fudge.”

What was that little room that Obi Wan hid in? Was it a bathroom, some sort of empty mop closet?

Dear god the lava fall :smack: It’s not exciting enough that they are fighting on lava. We need something to make it more x-treme. And halfway through the battle, some friggin lava bucket droid floats in and floats out again. What the hell was the point of that?

Why was Grevous coughing? Do we need another asthmatic villain in the star wars series?

Palpatine seemed a little too excited at the prospect of Anakin killing Count Dooku…in a dirty way. “Kill him Anakin. Kill him slower…now faster! Faster Anakin.”

How was Anakin surprised that Palpatine was a sith. He gave that masturbatory speech at the bubble opera about how 1337 the sith were. The only thing he didn’t do was beat Anakin over the head with his official Sith light baseball bat while screaming “I am a sith you retarted manchild.”

Killing may be against the jedi code, but they didn’t have much problem flushing that down the toilet whenever it was convenient. Killing Dooku? No problem. Good on ya Ani. Darth <shudder> Sidious begging for his life? Better put a light saber in his head (his butt head)

All in all, a worthy sequel to the first two prequels, Jar Jar and all.

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I haven’t had time to read through the whole thread but I saw the movie tonight and I thought I’d add my thoughts before I went toI l bed (It’s 2:15 am here).

I loved it. I was born in '83 so I missed the originals and I never caught the prequels in the cinema either so this is the first one I’ve seen on the big screen. I think have some idea now of how it felt seeing those movies for the first time.

There were some really brutal scenes. I’m thinking of Mace Windu’s death in particular. We don’t seem to see a lot of pain in Star Wars but when his arm came off… Wow. That hurt. Anakin’s defeat in the lava was similar. I don’t know what rating this got in America but it’s a ‘12A’ here. That means any kid can see it as long as they have a parent with them. I don’t think I could take a child to this movie.

Anakin was terrifying. He had that ambiguous thing going all the way through, and there was always a sense that there was much more going on behind those eyes. His turn was handled brilliantly and I definitely sympathised with him to a certain extent.

I wonder if anyone else has noticed the parallel titles from the trilogies

The Phantom Menace / A New Hope - Vague bad stuff happening / Vague good stuff happening
Attack of the Clones / The Empire Strikes Back - Good guys attack / Bad guys attack
Revenge of the Sith / Return of the Jedi - Bad guys retaliate / Good guys retaliate

I noticed this back when the title was announced but the Jedi references in the movie itself really reminded me of it.

Overall: Awesome. I might go as far as saying this is the best of the whole series but as I said I missed the full impact of the originals so I can’t really compare them on equal footing.

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I just want to mention that I’m turning 32 this year, and seeing Star Wars at a drive-in with my parents is one of my first clear memories. Maybe, as others have said, that influences my regard of the original movies, but I have to say that the characters in the originals seem much more endearing, and had much better chemistry, regardless of their individual acting skill, however that’s measured.

Nevertheless, I enjoyed this one. It was way, way better than the other two prequels.

When Padme showed up, I started cringing, remembering the atrocious romance from AotC. Then I decided to block out that memory, and pretend I was watching this without any previous knowledge. From that point of view, I thought they did an OK job of acting as young husband and wife. They definitely pull off caring for each other better than hot-and-bothered for each other. However, I hated that Padme went from woman of action to passive incubator. I’d really like to see the cut material about her founding the rebellion. I’d also expected her to abscond to Alderan and be in “fierce protective mother” mode, so her dying of “losing the will to live” was really obnoxious.

I thought it was ironic that Lucas did such a crappy job at portraying a romance, and such a good job of portraying a seduction (by Sidious). The actual turning scene could have used more subtlety, but in general I liked how it was done.

The end of the Obi-Wan/Anakin fight was just mind-blowing. I love Ewan McGregor. He did a great job of expressing total devastation and yet still seemed conflicted. I think it’s perfectly justified to infer that he left Anakin *both * because he couldn’t bring himself to kill his friend and because he was remembering the slaughter of those children and figured Anakin deserved whatever suffering he experienced.

And now the bad stuff.

My eyes and brain just gave up trying to focus during a lot of the battle scenes. Sometimes less is more, George!

After Anakin’s nightmare, my brain filled in the scene like this:

Padme: What’s wrong?
Anakin: I can’t understand how you sleep with those stupid pearls on your nightgown!

Samuel L. Jackson consistently pulled me out of suspension of disbelief. I’m not trying to put him down, just something about his character didn’t work for me.

Other goofy cliches also pulled me out of the film, such as Grievous calling off the minions in favor of a one-on-one fight, and the lavafall (because fighting on a river of lava just isn’t perilous enough!). I think this kind of thing doesn’t bug me in the originals, because they aren’t trying to be so serious. As a caller on The Connection put it, they have a swashbuckling, lighthearted approach entirely absent in the prequels.

I hate, hate, hated the “NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!” I mean, has anyone in the history of mankind ever responded to devastating loss by flinging their head back and actually shouting “no?” Saying no, trying to deny it, makes sense, but not shouting. And if you’re that overwhelmed, falling to your knees, sobbing, even screaming incoherently, I can see. But this, this was ridiculous. Cuckoorex, I absolutely adore your alternative - too bad I can’t physically splice it in to the DVD when it comes out.

Anyway, I still liked it quite a bit. I might indeed get the DVD when it is released.

Oh, and for once I spotted the Wilhelm, right off the bat. Gave me a little chuckle, but then again, also pulled me out of the suspension of disbelief.

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I…ahem…noticed her too.

I…ahem…agree.

Did anyone else see what seemed like a very Millenium-Falconish ship in the background of one scene? It was near the beginning, when Obi-Wan and Annakin return to Coruscant after succesfully rescuing the Chancellor. It was in the distance but it seemed to have that distinct familiar shape.

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Probably not, but it’s pro forma for adventure serials of the '30s and '40s, which Star Wars emulates. Did it bother you when Luke did it when Obi-Wan (apparently) died? Or again, when he learned that Vader was his father?

Pssst… Just seven posts before yours… :slight_smile: I know it’s not the exact same point, but still…

Speaking of the titles, it’s worth pointing out that every title after The Empire Strikes Back has been ambiguous (or deliberately misleading) in some way.

Dude… I think everybody noticed her.

One thing bothered me about that scene, though. Anakin just blew right past her, like he didn’t have any Force powers or anything.

What should have happened. :smiley:

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It’s PG-13 here, which means… nothing. Any kid can see it, no parents necessary, but it’s a warning that it’s more severe than a PG film, which is what the other 5 movies were.

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I didn’t see it myself, but my friend squealed “it’s the Falcon!” at about that time. I’m going to be having an eye out for it next time I watch.

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You beat me to this, but I had another thought during the movie:

[Paraphrased dialogue on Windu’s part for the first line]
Windu: You will be seated on the Council, but you will not be given the rank of Master.

Anakin: What?

Windu: SAY “WHAT” AGAIN! I DARE YOU! I DOUBLE-DARE YOU, MOTHERFUCKER! SAY “WHAT” ONE MORE GODDAMN TIME!

All in all, though, I liked the movie. It’s cheesy in some places, chilling in others. But, ya know, the original trilogy wasn’t exactly Ibsen. And Ewan McGregor has become one of my favorite actors in recent years.

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Wow, Aunt Beru was quite the babe in her prime.

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Agreed.

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On the other hand, Anakin was the first Jedi to go :smack: and say “Hey, Supreme Chancellor Palpatine is that Sith Lord we’ve been hunting for!” A fact which somehow escaped the attention of all those wise and Force-sensitive Jedi Masters under whose noses Palpatine hiding had been.

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Just saw it today, and overall I loved it.

Gotta agree with those who didn’t like Samuel Jackson’s performance. He seems to have almost no facial expression in this role. YMMV.

I also credit Mace Windu with a portion of the blame for Anakin’s turning. When a torn Anakin tells him that Palpatine is the Sith Lord, Mace chooses not to trust him–again. I don’t remember the exact line, but it was something like, “If this is true, then you will have earned my trust.” But he declines to let Anakin come with him to face Palpatine. Once again, Anakin is treated unfairly–at least in his eyes–by a member of the Jedi Council. And then, Mace prepares to kill Palpatine, saying, “He’s too dangerous to live.” Yeah, way to push Anakin right over the edge, Mace.

To echo what many have already stated: Natalie Portman was pathetic, Hayden was vastly improved (I may be in a minority on that one), and Ewan was wonderful. Palpatine is a fantastic villain. I think the central relationship of this film was the Anakin/Obi Wan friendship, and I thought Ewan McGregor played his final scene with Hayden Christenson wonderfully. Broke my heart, and I knew it was coming. Overall, I think the key to this movie was making the audience regret Anakin’s inevitable turn to the dark side, and for me at least, it succeeded. In spades. I really felt for that whiny kid.

I love the orginal trilogy; I was 11 when A New Hope came out, and I was one of those geeks that saw it over and over at the theatre. I’m sure this movie and the whole franchise will be analyzed to death, with fans debating over every word. And that’s okay. Hey, it’s the reason I’ve read this whole thread! But I still recall a quote by Lucas after the very first movie premiered in '77: “I wanted to make a movie that would allow people to leave their troubles behind and just enjoy. In other words, for two hours, they could forget.” (paraphrased) With this film, I did just that. I am a happy geek tonight.

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Going back to my post a few pages back, those were acceptable because you could actually see the actor’s faces. Acting goes a long way in selling potentially cheesy lines; for example, when Luke learns who his father really is, you can see the anguish in his face. It’s not nearly as effective to have an emotionless mask do the same thing- particularly when it’s doing it in James Earl Jones’ voice. The discontinuity between the emotions being expressed verbally and what is on display visually cancels out any actual effect on the audience.

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YES YES GOD YES
So many times the changes between films were completely obvious and intuitive (which was a great style and should’ve been continued) but they had to wrap up every. single. loose. end. to the point where I just really had to pee.

did no one else realize that this was a lie?

How many real life relationships have you seen where don’t believe the pairing?

It took them 18 years to finish it! The other one they knocked off in a few months!
…chewbacca was there… why?

order 66? what kind of lameass order number is that? Sounds like my food’s ready at burger king

This made Ep II make some sense. The sith made the army (wasn’t it Dooku?), and when the jedi found out about it, they were just like, hey, an army! cool! instead of considering for one second where they originated.

Note the past tense. Obi-wan wasn’t about to forgive this lunatic who betrayed everyone and slaughtered children. He’s lucky he didn’t get tossed in the lava.
A-N-A-K-I-N

p.s. Ewan McGregor is such an awesome actor. Sam Jackson and Natalie Portman constantly reminded me who they were, but McGregor WAS obi-wan. I’d let him do me.