They were a lot more to me than summer popcorn movies, and a lot more to a lot of people than they were to me.
“Summer popcorn movies”, to me, indicate a viewing in the theatre, maybe one more viewing at home 6 months to a year later, and that’s it. Not dozens of viewings, clothes, video games, tv shows, comicbooks, novels, and toys (hell, I had Return of the Jedi fucking rollerskates when I was a kid) that are still going strong after almost 30 years.
As always, your mileage may vary.
one other thing, i did like the humour with the droid army/R2 sequence, but part of me keeps thinking "these are battle-droids they shouldn’t have a personality, they’re supposed to be mindless automatans…
(yes i know, R2 and 3PO are based on similar tech, but somehow, Battledroids with a sense of humour seems somehow…strange)
the commentary from the kids behind me was somewhat amusing, i don’t think they had seen the other original movies, and were going in with just the knowledge of ANH…
<the childbirth scene>
(Luke is born)
“Luke, COOL!, Vader’s Luke’s father!”
(Leia is born)
“Leia?, LEIA?, dude, that’s GROSS, it’s his SISTER!”
i thought it was somewhat amusing
I hope this Bilboesque quote makes sense to you guys.
FTR, I would rate them:
Star Wars: 9.3
Empire: 9.6
Jedi: 9.5*
TPM: 5.5
AotC: 6.8
RotS: 8.1
*I was young enough that the Ewoks didn’t bother me.
That’s exactly my point.
People are looking at the original trilogy as something it wasn’t. Something it never tried to be. Something it couldn’t have been had it actually been trying.
Then they’re looking at the new trilogy not in light of what the original trilogy WAS, but what it became in their minds. And they find it wanting.
But if they watched the original trilogy without the beautifying haze of nostalgia and emotional pre-involvement. If they watched it fresh, it wouldn’t be the ‘holy trilogy’ and the newer movies wouldn’t look at all bad in comparison.
I say this as someone who loves the original movies. But, for the last 15 years - since the first time I watched them without the eyes of a 5 year old or a nostalgic haze, I love them for what they are. Silly action flicks with an interesting - if derivitive - story, moderately interesting characters, and an interesting ‘world’. And inconsistant plotting, iffy acting and really, really bad dialogue.
For what it’s worth, I think these movies are crap without comparison to the original trilogy. These are bad as stand alone movies. Compared to the orignial trilogy, they are an abomination.
I mean, people don’t even die of a broken heart in soap operas.
I was wrong. He was in the Imperial Navy:
I’m glad you brought that up. Of course I knew what was going to happen. I knew Anakin would turn. I knew that he and Palpatine would wipe out the Jedi. All the same, I couldn’t help but hope that things would turn out different, and THAT is what made this installment so good. Every time I watch Empire I can’t help but hope that they’d catch up to Boba Fett before he escapes with Han Solo. Just like people still hope that she doesn’t get on the plane in Casablanca (I’ve never actually seen it), ESB and Sith both make you hope somehow that things would turn out differently.
It’s not on behalf of Padme or Anakin, though, it’s for the Jedi and the Republic, and for characters like Obiwan and Yoda. They’re the ones I sympathized with.
It’s called an “idiot code.” Anybody who eavesdrops on the transmission only knows that 66 is significant. Without the proper code book, they don’t know whether “Order 66” means:
[ul]
[li]Assassinate Jedi immediately.[/li][li]Retreat to nearest Victory Star Destroyer.[/li][li]When come back to Coruscant, bring pie.[/li][/ul]
Keep in mind that when the order goes out, no non-Sith knows that Palpatine is evil; everybody thinks he’s simply the Chancellor. And if proper information security protocols are used, there isn’t any evidence after the fact either that Palpatine gave the order.
I’m definitely going to re-watch this movie. It totally rocked, and made up for the first two.
Saw it and loved it! It’ll take a while remove the horror of the last two eps burned into my mind, but it’s nice to know I can replace it with this move.
It seems that I’m the only person that DIDN’T think Anakin’s turning was too rushed. I think they portrayed his confusion and slow corruption prior to the showdon with Windu very well. He was still confused up to (and during) his assist in Mace’s death. After that point, however, he didn’t exactly feel that he was left with many options. After killing a master Jedi, he felt that there would be no way to cast off the label of traitor and be welcomed back into the fold. He crossed the line of no return in his mind, and instantly started orienting himself towards his new future.
Sure there were ackward lines and inconsistencies, but they were mostly minor and easily overlooked…Except for the “I think you’re beatiful. That’s because you love me. It’s because I’m IN love with you” atrocity. The audience’s emotion meter skipped ‘groan’ and ‘shudder’, and leaped right to ‘laugh hystericaly’
midget, I agree with your view on Anakin’s turning. I mean, Windu’s willingness to kill a defensless Palpatine (even if he was too dangerous) showed him that the Jedi were simply for power (in his mind) and then he killed Windu. After that, there was no turning back. He KILLED a Jedi Master! And he couldn’t kill Palpatine at that point (Palpy was taking a dive and would have destroyed Anakin).
And once you fall to the Dark Side… it’s hard to come back.
Saw the movie today. Overall, I thought it was fun, though my full enjoyment was hampered from (a) the nosebleed seats I got in the fourth row, and (b) some wretched acting and dialog, particularly from Portman and Hayden (especially Hayden).
And as to not repeat myself from the BBQ Pit, I will simply link to my rant on why Mace Windu is the second-dumbest character in RotS (with Anakin being the first). 
Keep in mind, By the time that ANH starts, 20 years have passed. The source for the clones has been dead for about 25, so they must keep re-using dna. After a while errors start to creep into the copies. Think about what happens when you photocopy a copy of a copy of a copy of a document. By the time Luke was fighting stormtroopers, they were probibly a few generations into some seriouls errors…
Plus the few that were introduced in the begining, like an inability to duck.
I like to think that the original trilogy stormtroopers’ notoriously poor marksmanship is the result of the Imperial bureaucracy being completely out-of-touch with the boots on the ground.
What was Luke’s first comment when he and Han donned stormtrooper armour for their subterfuge? “I can’t see a thing in this helmet.” The Empire kept making cosmetic changes to the Mandelorian armour – changes that were focused on presenting an intimidating appearance, rather than practical concerns. “Look at me! I’m bright white! Why? Because I’m such a bad-ass it doesn’t matter if I stick out like a sore thumb. Besides, there’s five hundred more troops right behind me. You don’t stand a chance, rebel scum!”
The latest change to the uniform was replacing the panoramic blast-shield strip with a socketed design. One that narrows to points on the the inside edges, right in front of the stormtrooper’s eyes, and widens to the cop sunglasses-size only at the edge of the face. Imagine engaging in combat with a deck of playing cards duct-taped to the bridge of your nose. That’s what being an Imperial stormtrooper is all about.
This is the Star Wars analog of the the central command of the British Empire mandating that their troops in Africa wear heavy wool garments to shield them from the harmful effects of the African sun. Great logic, coming from folks who’d never left the Sceptered Isle. All those troops passing out from heat prostration? Malingerers, to a man. 
I’m not going to dispute that the OT love is at least partly colored by nostalgia; however, I would strongly disagree that the acting and dialogue were bad, particularly on the level the prequel films exhibit. I just rewatched The Empire Strikes Back today, and despite knowing exactly what was going to happen, was surprised by how the film crackles with energy. The Han and Leia banter throughout the film is lively and well-acted, and aside the occasional groaner (“nerf herder!”) features some great, quotable dialogue (“We don’t have time to discuss this in committee!”/ “I am NOT a committee!”). Nothing even approaches the wretchedness on display in the wooden love scenes of the prequels.
Return of the Jedi I’ll give you, but the first two films of the original trilogy were better than the prequels (Ewan MacGregor aside) in terms of acting, writing, and directing, nostalgia-tinted glasses or no.
Best Star Wars flick ever! I’m still in shock even after watching the movie twice. After two mediocre movies, I was pretty much resigned to thinking that Lucas blew his load on the original trilogy and didn’t have anything left for the prequels, but he pulled out all stops and gave the saga the ending that it deserved.
Where to begin? Some of my favorite scenes:
–The little boy Jedi coming out of nowhere to save Senator Organa manages to kill about half a dozen clone soldiers before getting killed.
–Mace Windu’s duel with Palpatine and his death scene. Mace was a kickass character who deserved a great death scene, so I’m happy that he got one and we even got an explanation for Darth Sidious’s scarred face!
–After countless Jedi are killed in sneak attacks by clones, Yoda easily kills his would-be assassins rather easily.
–Anakin beheading Count Dooku.
–The final duel between Obi-Wan and Anakin. When Obi-Wan cried to Anakin “You were the chosen one!” it felt like I was watching a real family disintegrate. Great scene.
I also appreciated all the explanations we got, like seeing how fucked up Anakin got explained why Vader wore that bulky suit with a breathing apparatus or how Yoda telling Obi-Wan that Qui-Gon Jinn has found away to communicate with them.
I already can’t wait for the DVD!
One thing I’d have liked to see commented on more… it seems totally preposterous that the Jedi couldn’t figure out who the Sith lord was:
-They know that a Sith lord exists, who is rumored to have influence on the senate
-They know that the Sith worth through treachery and confusion, and are power-hungry
-They know that Palpatine is still chancellor long after his term expired
-They even comment that the dark side seems to surround him
Yet the never seem to actually specifically suspect that it’s him. (Although Mace Windu’s response when Anakin tells him is “then our worst fears are realized”, or something, which could be read to imply that they’ve suspected this might be the case…)
It seems to me that the explanation for all this is that part of the Sith powers is a massive confusion field… it’s VERY hard for people to realize that Palpatine is a Sith, even with nearly-direct evidence. I just wish we had heard someone comment on something like this, instead of having to hypothesize it ourself to explain a seemingly gaping hole.
Nonetheless, I loved the movie… three viewings so far, probably one more in a few weeks.
I just wanted to note that Yoda realizes his disadvantage at this point in his duel with Palpitine…and it’s juxtaposed with Anakin not realizing his disadvantage in his own duel with Obi-Wan. Anakin arrogantly continues & gets cut down. Yoda wisley retreats & meets up with Organa to live to fight another day.
Well…it feels like I’m adding something that hasn’t been said in a six page thread.
Ah, it’s much like Steve (Apple CEO) Jobs’ famed “Reality Distortion Field”!
Did anybody else notice that, prior to Palpatine’s duel with Yoda, he ordered the droid army deactivated “immediately”? I think he gave that order at the same time he was issuing Order 66. The reason is obvious: it would be too easy for his enemies to infiltrate and reprogram the droid army and use it against him. That’s why we don’t see any droid soldiers in episodes IV - VI. And of course, even Palpatine can’t play “Sith Mind Tricks” on droids.
My theater had cheering at the beginning of the movie, clapping at the end, and total silence throughout.
Except for her scene, where there gasps and whispers of, “wow!”.
-Joe
Not necessarily. Don’t forget that Anakin was a (supposedly) virgin birth. When you can see the future doing something like that might be worthwhile. As others have suggested, it’s possible that Palpatine’s master was trying to grow himself a kickass apprentice.
Eh. Remember that the Jedi “knew” that the army had been commissioned and (presumably) paid for by Master Sifo Dyas. Again, if you have someone who can see the future (seperatist droid armies ripping apart the Republic) it’s not too hard to believe that they’d go ahead and have an army created that will be ready right when it’s needed.
-Joe, gets a discount on parenthesis