TKD/Martial Arts and my son

In My Humble Opinion
1

My son has been enrolled at Ernie Ray’s West Coast Martial Arts in Morgan Hill, CA for about 5 years. He took the junior (“little dragons”) program to their “black belt” level, and he’s now in the adult program for a 2-3 years… He’s 10 and has a Red belt, which is pretty high in their belt pantheon: the next steps are Red-1 (red with a black stripe) then Red/Black (red with black evenly; you wear the belt black-up until you pass the Black test, then black-down until you’ve attended enough classes after and recieve your “real” black bet.

Anyway, the school my boy is in is circling the drain. The owner (Russ) has let go the main instructor (Eric) and now its Russ and a black-belt assistant doing all the classes. Attendance is down to nothing; the last adult class I took my son to last week had four people in it. Russ apparently called a meeting with some of the black belts to explain why Eric was let go, and also how he’s now doing some multi-level marketing scheme and has very little time for the school. I got this all second-hand from one of the attendees. Another data point is that we’ve ordered equipment through them (sparring pads, that kind of thing), paid money, and have received neither in about 3 months.

I think the school will likely fail in the next two months, so we need to transition our boy to someplace else. We live in Gilroy, CA, and there is a dearth or reputable schools there. If I want to stick with an Ernie Rayes outfit, I’ll need to tote my boy to San Jose, the closest school being about 20 miles away, 3-5 days a week. We can do that, but it will be challenging for black belt training, which requires constant attendance

I can’t say I really understand TKD associations; I know WCMA is part of one, and there are several national organization s. How can I transition my son to a school that is part of whatever national org he is in, or to a different one where he can test to be whatever equivalent level he is in?

We have talked many times with our son about whether he wants to continue martial arts, and how we won’t think any less of him if he does not. His answer has been that he wants to earn his black belt. He gets a bit whiny on individual days, and asks if he can skip just this once! but he seems dedicated otherwise. And he also seems very talented; he nails many of the techniques the school teaches to my eyes, and has just wicked techniques in some areas. Yes, I’m his parent, grains of salt are given.

I’d like to give him a roadmap to getting his goal (black belt, whatever that means at whatever school), and need a new roadmap because of his current school’s mismanagement. I’m really unsure of what to do given uneven definitions of TKD and belt levels among schools.

How would you, a parent of a martial arts student, proceed?

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Requisite links of my boy breaking boards: 1, 2

3

Title changed per request of OP.

4

You should find a school that doesn’t teach him to hold his fist a half inch from his chin. That’s a knockout waiting to happen.

5

Or leave his foot flat on spin kicks. Not only do you get an extra bit of height on you kick, but the spin is faster…And you don’t damage the knee.

It sounds as though the school isn’t in a great organisation, I’d expect support from them if one of the instructors I had previously was starting to fail.

Also, their belt system is, well, wrong. There should only be one step between red and black belts, the full band of black aka 1st Kup. Any other ‘levels’ serve no purpose than to create another grading to be paid for. TKD should be taught the way General Choi intended, and that includes utilising the same belt system.

For his best interests, find him a ‘school’ (it doesn’t have to be a proper dojo setup, don’t instructors teach in just hired rooms in sport centres in the US, like here in the UK?) that is under either the ITF or WTF, for general standards across the board, including belt standards.
This is likely the only way to ensure it’s up to good standard, as instructors all have peers, and someone above them too.
This Ernie Ray’s stuff just looks (admittedly I’ve only got the vids and their webasite to go on) like a general mish mash of martial arts, with the easiest marketable bits pulled out to form the syllabus.
At this point, you’ve got to decide whether he’s doing it for the sake of just getting his blackbelt, or if he wants to develop into a good martial artist. If it’s just the belt, stick with the programme, maybe find a school close that will let him carry on at the same level.
If he wants to be a good martial artist for the rest of his life, maybe encourage him to either start TKD at a traditional school (though they might make him start from the bottom as he’s not trained in that specific syllabus), or a different martial art.

Maybe just let him get his belt, and let him train if he wants. When he’s older, say 15, 16 or so, if he starts to seriously get into martial arts, maybe get him training in MMA for a full rounded experience, and see where that goes.

I’ve been a blackbelt in ITF TKD since '03, and I’ve trained since '98 (aged 9!), for what it’s worth.
I currently don’t have kids, but if/when I do they’ll definitely be involved in martial arts, and I think finding the balance between high standards and fun will be the most important aspect of where they train.

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Missed edit window;

Check out the wiki page for info on the association malarky.

3 days a week is usual Blackbelt training, for an adult. You know, where it’s hard to pass the grading? Regular training, twice a week is sufficient.
If the school is demanding you attend that much, they’re after your money. If you’re doing it just because the kiddo enjoys it, and you can afford it, then that’s fair enough.

Just think though, with 4 days a week, 2 days per martial art, I know kids that have got junior blackbelts in both arts within 3 years.

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I never participated in any MA that involved belts (other than BJJ), so I don’t know the answer to this question - is there any overarching TKD organization under which belts/ranks are recognized and transferrable from one school/system to another?

I suspect the reality is that your son will most likely suffer some reduction in rank if he switches affiliation. The 2 of you will need to decide how that weighs against the increased travel time and apparent - um - instability of his current system.

I personally think belts for kids are somewhat silly, tho I can imagine they mean something in many kids’ minds. But I’d simply advise choosing the school which is closest to you that has been in business for the longest time, with the teachers/environment you like best, and the class schedule/costs that best suit you. They may do an initial test and allow your son in at higher than the white belt level - or his ability may allow him to quickly progress through the lower levels.

As a martial artist, I’ll note that one really good option would be for your kid to switch to a completely different style. That would free you to simply choose the “best” local school, whether they teach TKD, BJJ, karate, boxing, wrestling, FMA, …

If your son’s main desire is the black belt, there are any number of mills that will guarantee one in a certain amount of time for a certain fee. Of course I have a very low opinion of such places.

So, when’s clothahump gonna check in here?

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Just my $.02:

I was in martial arts from age of 12 - 20. I wish my parents had done some investigation into
the teachers, because looking back I can recall that not one of them had any actual training in personal training, fitness, kinesiology, physiology or anything that would help them prevent injury. My joints have suffered as a result, I know my left hip was injured some time in the first year of training, just through improper form.

If I were to enroll my kids in a martial arts school, I would make sure the teachers had an education in physiology to prevent injury.

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Well if you do encounter Ernie Reyes, you should tell him to fix his Wikipedia page:

Lole.

Honestly, the school sounds suspiciously like a “McDojo,” although I can’t really judge it because I’m not there. But I do know that there are a lot of places with a reputation for being about profit first and teaching second (I mean, it’s to be expected, in our free market economy) and some of them just hand out black belts like candy, to keep the parents paying. They make the tests really easy so that all the kids can pass and their parents can pay for the new belt and the testing fee and whatnot. Again I don’t know if your place is like that but from what others have said, maybe it wouldn’t be so bad if your kid studied at a different school. Certainly you shouldn’t have to drive him 20 miles away 3 to 5 days a week.

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And if he loses some rank so what? Warrior spirit means you persevere, you don’t quit just because there is a setback.

I don’t know that much about TKD but I understand these to be its tenets. Do you think these are being promoted at his school?

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And also someplace that requires more challenging breaks once you’re an advanced rank. One board with a skip side kick at red belt? Absolutely no offense intended, but that’s pretty much one of the easiest techniques to break with.

More constructive advice from someone who’s not a parent, but my parents are TKD parents who drove to and sat through countless lessons for nearly eight years, until I could drive myself:
Find a WTF or ITF school. Ideally one that’s an official membership, but that’s not necessary to be a ‘good’ school. You’ll know it’s a good school if the head instructor takes time to work one-on-one with your son to assess where he is in terms of their curriculum, and bases his rank on that. He may ‘lose’ some rank, he may stay the same, but the important thing is that the instructor does not make assumptions either way.

Both TKD schools I trained at and every one I’ve visited has recited the tenets that Hello Again linked to. If you observe a class at a potential new school and they don’t, ask why - that’s a significant deviation from “traditional” TKD.

Ideally you shouldn’t have to sign a contract. If you do, it should be along the lines of, “I will pay $__ per month.” At his age, no matter how much he may like it now, you don’t want a long-term obligation.

Three times a week seems about right to me; whether he wants/needs/should go more or less is really an issue to discuss with him and his instructor.

I’d also suggest an honest discussion with your son, because IMO - and this is absolutely nothing more than my opinion - he’s kind of missing the point if his goal is to get a black belt. A black belt in and of itself doesn’t mean a damn thing, and if you make it your goal, then what happens once you get it? Have you worked for years and now that’s it, you’re done? The process of working towards it should be the goal. Why does your son like training? Does he have friends there and like the social environment? Does he like the mental aspect of it? The physical - and if so, what exactly, the exercise part, the combat part, all of it together? It’s definitely a good idea before committing to continuing to know why.

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In theory, this is all 100% correct, but in practice, children usually need a tangible goal to work towards.

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I hear you could train at church and become a 10th degree red belt.

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You should be able to find out what association the school is associated with. It is most likely ITF, or WTF.

Once you find that out, finding a school close by that is also teaching from that associations syllabus won’t be that hard. The hyung/poomse should be the same, so he shouldn’t lose much in teh way of time.

In fact, if you explain the situation to any decent instructor at a good school, they should be able to work with you to get your kid’s rank figured out.

Things to look out for:

Excessive numbers of belts.
Limiting contracts (different amounts of attendance based on how much you pay)
Mandatory club membership (it’s another way for schools to make a buck without having to pass it on to the Kwan)
Super colorful uniforms. I don’t know why, but every place I’ve seen with instructors all wearing different colored uniforms always end up being McDojo’s.

If he’s interested in switching arts, you are in one of the best places to do it. Other arts that what he’s learned may translate well for would be Tang Soo Do, or (if they’re still around) Hwa Wrang Do.

OR something else entirely. Lots of Kuk Sool in the bay area. hehehe

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I would say it depends on what your sons goals are. It sounds like owning a belt is the goal. Some TKD schools are notorious for being belt mills. Just call them up and talk with them. If he is in the least bit learning something practical, this MMA gym is only 4 more miles than SJ.

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I had a look at the website, and it doesn’t even seem to promote real TKD, never mind ITF or WTF.

There’s now 3 calls for find an ITF or WTF school if the squeelet wants to continue with TKD.

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Indeed. It’s all well and good to study TKD, but if he hopes to have a belt that is recognized as “official” by any other school, it’s a good idea to go with ITF or WTF.

Of course, that’s largely a matter of personal preference. I’m currently doing classes at teh local Y that is a hodgepodge of MA and I’m having a grand time!

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You know, you have piqued my interest. My son, now seven, is in TKD, and has been for just about two years now (he’s a purple belt). We were concerned at the start about how quickly kids pass their belt tests, but understand that as they get higher up, it is harder to pass, and it seems that at his last test, some kids did in fact not pass. In addition, when he gets ready someday to test for the black belt (in two years or so by my calculations), it sounds like a standardized, difficult test, the least of which is a four mile run.

The thing is, he belongs to ATA. While I am not crazy about his school, the organization is something I’ve never given a second thought to. My wife has been currently going ‘pageant mom’ on him because he has a good chance of taking state champ this year and as long as he enjoys it, and can keep good grades at school, I am fine with them going nuts like they are.

Is there some kind of talk/problem with ATA as an organization?

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Seems to be of the better kind of separate organisations, it’s quite large, seems to be professional. However it’s only a national organisation (i think), compared to ITF/WTF that are international, so I’d guess the world champs. aren’t as good :stuck_out_tongue:

At the end of the day, so long as there’s a big organisation above the school, there seems to be less chance for abuse, it’s ‘blackbelt academies’ and such that are the real rip off merchants and Mcdojo’s.

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According to http://ataonline.com/ there are other associations that make up the international component of ATA - World Traditional Taekwondo Union (WTTU) and the Songahm Taekwondo Federation (STF).