We know why december got banned. Sam’s the one who insists otherwise. The one who threatened/offered/whatever to leave is Sam.
Clear now, Scotticher?
I’m clear.
He was NOT banned “simply for posting political material that you guys don’t agree with or that you think is stupid or inflammatory”, so why should Sam Stone take a walk?
Sam, here are the threads in question.
First, there was the Did the President mislead about Saddam’s WMDs, nukes and terrorists? thread.
Then, when Gaudere closed that thread, saying:
december opened another thread on the issue entitled For post-modern posters, truth depends on who said it.
I’m not sure if these threads were the ones that were the “final straw.” The closing of the first thread was over a week before the banning, and the second thread reamins open. In the second thread, Gaudere made the following points about the first one:
This post was made on August 22, and the last sentence suggests that the decision to boot december had not yet been made at that, altohuogh it is undoubtedly true that these threads were weighed by the mods and admins in the decision to ban him.
I think the key problems i have with the whole debate are that:
a) many are implying, or stating outright, that the mods and admins, and CKDH in particular, are lying about the reason for the banning.
b) people are arguing based on the unproven, and, as i’ve already said, probably unprovable assertion that december’s notoriety arose mainly or solely due to his politics, not his behaviour.
c) there have also been suggestions that liberals treat our own much more kindly, and such assertions continue to be made despite the fact that it has been constantly pointed out that many liberals, myself included, have been just as hard on posters like Reeder as we were on december.
For myself, i have never called for Reeder to be banned. But then, i never called for december to be banned either.
I lurk and contribute on some real left-wing sites, and i like them a lot. But i don’t want the SDMB to be just a left/liberal forum, and i really don’t think that it is.
Also, i like the fact that i can disagree with a Doper over a political issue in one thread, and have a fun and harmonious discussion with the same Doper on a different topic (e.g., poker :)) in another.
I am NOT saying that december was banned “simply for posting political…”
However, if Sam believes that to be the case, then he should stand by what he said. (Or, even better, open his mind to what the real reason for the banning was.)
Okay, I’m done tilting at windmills here. But one thing I don’t understand - in the thread in question, Gaudere accused December of ‘deliberately lying’. I didn’t see it. December attributed the quote to ‘the president’. It was a rhetorical trap, and one that I’ve seen used many times in the press as well as on this board. At what point did it get elevated to a ‘deliberate lie’?
Don’t get me wrong - I think that ‘gotcha’ debates are a cheap trick, and I don’t think December should have done that. But as crimes go, it’s somewhat less than a lie.
No offense was ment. Out of curiousity, why would you assume that it was Dex?
(BTW, I still think that it could have been Ike, for a fairly good reason: december rarely (if ever) posted in Cafe Society.)
Out of curiousity, Sam, how would you take it if I wrote an OP about “the PM” that was really talking about Mulrooney, Campbell, Clark, or Turner?
Well, all i would say to this is what i said in the second thread on the issue.
The title “President” is used in the United States to refer to former presidents, so we still use terms like President Carter, President Reagan, President Clinton, etc.
But i have never yet heard a former president referred to simply as “The President,” without any reference to the person’s name or their status as a former president. I assume that the reason for this is that people know that when the term “The President” is used, the audience will assume that the person being discussed is the incumbent president, unless they are informed otherwise.
December surely knew this would be the case. You might refer to it as a “rhetorical trap,” but i think that “deliberate lie” is just as appropriate a designation.
Going off-topic a bit, i should also add that december’s post made a mistake that is common among people on both sides of American politics: that those who criticize one of the two major parties (Dems or Reps) must automatically support the other one.
I never responded to december’s quotation, but my reaction to the quote would have been the same whether it was Bush, Clinton, or my mother. Just because i’m a strong opponent of George Bush does not mean i have any great love for Bill Clinton, and assuming that i do is the type of simplistic, reductionist thinking that is so frequently found in december’s posts. Not that such idiocy is a cause for banning–i’m just making my position on that thread clear.
I thought an Admin had locked down the December banning thread with a quote that is was enough on that subject. Given that, did we really need to hijack this nice thank you thread back to the topic of the locked thread?
elf said
I believe Dex said somewhere else that the thread was locked because it degenerated into name calling. He specifically said that conversation about the subject at hand was OK.
I do agree that this thread has been hijacked, but it probably is also OK as it seems to be a somewhat civilized outlet for further discussion.
Sam, can we take that to mean you no longer think december’s banning was politically motivated, even partially? How about an apology to Dex if that’s the case?
Please make it clear that you are asking a question of Sam Stone. 
Consider it made clear, samclem. You’ve always been a stand-up kind of guy, at least AFAIK.
Give my regards to Mrs. Twain.
Thanks, You’ve made my point
Actually, there are much fewer righties compared to lefties and centrists. Perhaps you could refute me by reporting the ratio of december complaints to reeder complaints you mods got in the last month. Just a ballpark would be fine.
Who said I was complaining? Not me. My point is merely to support my assertion that root cause of december’s demise is his political isolation. Had anyone else trapped december like he attempted to do to others with the Clinton misquote (I’m relying on reports of this allegation), the response would have been radically different. I don’t think that anyone can deny that the vast majority of dopers do not like Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh or Daniel Pipes and would harrass them if they ever participated on this board.
Do you think it is admirable when someone reports to the principal that a classmate is smoking cigarettes in the washroom?
So what’s your point?
So, it’s too late to say anything nice about Gaudere?
Sorry, hon, I’ll have to save it for the next Chidope. 
<< My point is merely to support my assertion that root cause of december’s demise is his political isolation. >>
Goddammit, how many times do I have to say it? NO. The reason for december’s banning was his repeated mis-behavior, despite explicit warning. It had nothing to do with the causes he espoused.
I’m tired of beating this dead horse. Believe what you want. In fact, since we routinely ban people who disagree with us, watch your back carefully. We’re out to get you. We have monitors watching your every move.
Goddam paranoid loonies.
Once Collounsbury forced his banning, it was just a matter of time before December got the axe. If December had once posted in Collounsbury’s profane style, he would have been banned immediately. However, Collounsbury was reluctantly banished from the boards. In December’s case, any reason would have sufficed, and in the end, it did. Liberals profess to believe in a lot of freedoms. Freedom of speech, however, is limited to those who agree with their views.
Creative_Munster probably picked up “Goddam paranoid loonies” through a vanity search. 
… has nothing at all to do with this message board.
Sorry, I just have to laugh at that. I sense a little frustration there Dex. Head gettin a little sore from beatin that wall yet?
It’s getting better around here, I think/hope. Seems like some of the summer newbies/evil li’l shits are thinning out.
AND Cecil gave me his word that he would clean house 'round here after Labor Day.
He wouldn’t lie now, would he?
BTW, You’ve made it clear why Dec. is out. I think maybe now there’s a little chain yanking going on.
Godamned Paranoid Loonies = cool bandname
Nobody is denying that December was banned for his behavior.
Just that he wouldn’t have been banned for his behavior, had not there been such an outcry against it.
It’s on the same lines as the rarely enforced sodomy laws that used to exist. Tons of people technically commited sodomy according to those laws. However it would take special circumstances for someone to be convicted of sodomy. And then, of course, they would have been convicted for their behavior, right?
And this is from someone who disagreed with almost all of December’s partisan politics.