66 years ago…Japanese army invaded shanghai,china,killed thousands of people…so cruel…but the Japanese government denied it so far…
The poison gas let off in east-north of China days ago,more than 30 people was put into hospital then…how the japanese government will do with this matter?how could they deny the war happened in china decades years ago?
pray for those who is innocent during the war…
While I agree that the Japanese government and people have not faced up to their responsibility over what they did in China, I also believe the Chinese government has used these things to excite Chinese nationalism which is not a good way to heal old wounds. If you are going to use it to gain points, don’t be surprised if the other side tries to avoid it.
The Germans have been much more open about admitting responsibility for their acts but the Brits and the USA have been much more magnanimous and have not used them to stir anti-German sentiment.
If and when the Chinese decide it is time to forgive then the Japanese will probably be more open but, for now, there is still too much anti-Janpaese sentiment in China.
Could you give us a more detailed description of this incident and explain what it has to do the the Japanese?
…with the Japanese…
http://edition.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/asiapcf/east/08/11/china.gas.ap/
sweels, it was an old Japanese barrel of posion gas left over from WWII.
My Grandfather was a member of the colonial Malay civil sevice and was captured by the Japanese at the fall of Singapore and put in a civilian Japanese prisoner of war camp (when he came out it took him a whole year to ‘learn how to eat again’) , it was only a few years ago that my Grandmother received compensation for this, the Japanese government haven’t exactly been great at admitting and recompensing for their countries former wrong-doings.
sailor, I agree with you that current and past Chinese governments have used the war to stir anti-Japanese sentiment. In part this was caused by the cold war split that left Japan and China on opposite sides. However, the level of contrition that Germany showed for its actions during World War II has been lacking in Japan. Its school’s history books have a tendency to whitewash the Japanese war in China, though of course all nations’ high school history books tend not to linger on their darker actions. More worrisome is that there is a right wing element in Japan, some of whom are in public office, which denies that events such as Nanking even occurred. The two sides will have to meet each other in the end, but waiting for China to forgive Japan is placing the cart somewhat ahead of the horse.
in fact…in the history…premiere Zhou En Lai has represented all the chinese forgave japanese decades ago…but japanese did not remember this…
Byzantium, hate to break this to you, but among the colleagues I deal with, my extended family, the newspapers (I admit to not exactly stellar literacy in Chinese), this was a complete non-event. I didn’t even notice until I read this board. I’ll ask my wife but my father-in-law who was in Shanghai at the time didn’t mention it at dinner on Wednesday.
Not trying to say it didn’t happen or anything like that, but am saying that at least in my circle it wasn’t even acknowledged. That part of history isn’t exactly forgotten, but for most Shanghaiese it is an old story they have long come to terms with and are living in the here and now when the Japanese (and the investment dollars they bring) are pretty welcome. YMMV
sorry,maybe u did not tell clearly what u really wanna say…did u understand what i want to express?
…
The Japanese atrocities in China were awful. No question about it. BUT, the Chinese communist government demanding an apology is totally cynical. The Chinese communist government has caused more pain suffering and death to the Chinese people than the Japanese ever did and I do not see them apologizing any time soon. The Chinese government has used nationalism for its own ends and their demands for apologies from the Japanese are nothing but self-serving attempts to humiliate the Japanese and gain points at home. The Chinese government has done a lot of anti-foreign agit-prop when it has served them and they cannot expect the target countries to be all nice and sincere and forthcoming.
Western people and nations are more open while Asian people and nations place more value in saving face and such things of honor. Look at the Hainan incident. Also, Germany could be more open because the victors were not using it to humiliate Germany or rub it in Germans’ faces. China is not so magnanimous. I can understand that I would not be willing to offer sincere apologies to someone I know would tell me to fuck off. And, BTW, there are also a minority in Germany who deny the holocaust and other atrocities ever happened.
Byzantium, while it is true that the Japanese have not owned up to their responsibilities and have more or less tried to ignore and forget a lot of what they did, this pales in comparison with the atrocities committed by the Chinese on each other and with the whitewashing and “revision” of history done by the Chinese government.
To say the Chinese have forgiven the Japanese is not really true as the Chinese government uses those events whenever it suits their purposes to stir domestic nationalism. They do it not only with Japan but with all western countries as well, bringing up events that happened over a century ago in a way that looks to us, westerners, totally childish. (It took George Bush to act worse with France and make the Chinese look good in comparison.)
sailor, again I agree with you with regards to the Chinese government, but the issue isn’t limited just to China, there is a lot of residual fear and resentment of Japan throughout Asia. Consider Germany’s compensation for slave laborers with that of Japan for slave labor and ‘comfort women.’
While there are holocaust deniers in Germany, there are also Holocaust denial laws in Germany. For Example
Contrasted with the situation in Japan, where in the words of Iris Chang, the author of The Rape of Nanking, from here:
Dissonance, yes, people in Asia still remember Japanese atrocities, especially in Korea and other places ossupied by the Japanese but it is also a reality today that China is perceived much more as threat to peace and stability in the region today and in the near future than Japan. Countries in Asia today fear China, not Japan.
Oh,Jesus,how could u say so…could u give us some evidence on such a matter???
I m wondering why westeren people have such different comments on chinese government? do western people know much about them even than chineseself?
of cos,i admit that they hide a lot of truth to the public…but how foreigners know ?
and dont forget,decades years ago,chinese government helped african building the traffic and send medical team there…how great!
Byzantium - in my opinion - the single greatest thing about the Western World - and by extension an internet messageboard such as this - is that we can speak truthfully with each other. Sometimes, the truth might be buried under the propaganda - and every country does this including every country in the Western World too - but eventually the truth comes out, and people such as ourselves get to discuss it here on messageboards like the SDMB.
Welcome to the Straight Dope Message Board by the way. I assume that Mandarin is your primary language and that English is 2nd for you. Fear not, we’ll understand what you’re trying to say and cut you the slack which is neceassry.
May I ask that you tro to be patient with us - after all, China is a huge country with an extraordinary population. Considering the size of that population, it’s a miracle that more problems such a mafia activity and terrorist issues don’t ever emanate from China. So something must be going right.
Indeed, down here in my home town of “The Gold Coast” in Queensland, Australia, we have hundreds of thousands of Chinese tourists every year and not one of them ever gets into trouble with the law - ever.
So be patient with us my friend - and try to soak up that we all share the same goal when we talk about things here - we all wish to see the truth come out - even if that truth is painful sometimes. When we discus China, we’re not talking about some alien culture on another planet - merely a country who doesn’t speak English - but you’re here amongst us Byzantium - and your presence is highly welcome.
Byzantium, I take it you are Chinese living in China. I have been to China quite a few times and have friends there and I have had similar discussions with them so your point of view is not new to me. The problem is that the Chinese people do not realise how controlled all their information is. How can you have an objective opinion if all your information is controlled by the government? You have come to the right place though. Here you can freely discuss anything you want.
I have seen plenty of nationalistic rhetoric coming from China. China often uses nationalistic rhetoric to gain internal support. China has been making very threatening noises regarding Taiwan and has even been building installations on the coast which could be used in an attack on Taiwan and a few years back even fired some missiles in the Taiwan straight. China is very aggressive regarding Taiwan and the rest of the countries in the area (and the world) are concerned about what China might do in the future. Now China does not have the capability to invade Taiwan but China is rebuilding its army and this could change in just a decade. A Chinese invasion of Taiwan would be a major disaster for the entire world so everybody is concerned. Japan, on the other hand, has not threatened any military action against anybody and shows no intention of using force against anybody.
China has also claimed the entire South China Sea and the Spratley Islands and has ocassionally fired on people there. This is another source of nervousness for countries in the region. The incident where Chinese fighter planes were aggresively playing with an American surveillance plane and caused an accident which forced the American plane to land in Hainan Island goes to show the Chinese attitude. The incident happened in international air space but, at first, Chinese authorities claimed it was Chinese air space. Chinese Jurisdiction over the South China Sea is not recognised by any other country and many other countries have claims over the Spratly Islands.
China has been throwing its weight around in the last few decades. It has an authoritarian government which likes to use force to get its way, internally and externally. Internally you have the Tiananmen Square incident as a good example. Externally, China invaded Vietnam in 1979 (and the Vietnamese beat the crap out of them). China has shown a tendency to use force, it is using rhetoric that it will use force and its neighbors are concerned and rightly so. If China had any military capabilty it would be a much more serious problem.
Since its defeat in WWII Japan has never been a threat to anyone. It has not made any indications that it has any intention of using force with any country. It has not rebuilt any substantial military force to do so and shows no intention of doing it.
I know all this comes as news to you but it is a fact that the countries in the region fear China and do not fear Japan. You have the same opinion that all my Chinese friends have. You are a product of Chinese propaganda. Welcome to this board my friend. You will have the chance to learn a lot and you will have the chance to present and defend your own views which we all welcome.
To further support my point I will add that China still has border and territorial disputes with several countries in the area and it has had armed conflicts with several in the past few decades. India is one if them as it was defeated by China in a border war in 1962 and one of the primary reasons India has nuclear weapons is to ward off China. China has also had border clashes with Russia and with Vietnam. China and Vietnam (an the Philippines and other countries) still both claim the Spratly and Paracel Islands.
China is doing what it can to claim jusrisdiction and control over the South China Sea which is in direct conflict with the interests of the other countries in the rigion and the rest of the world. It is in the vital interests of the international community that the South China Sea lanes be free and open. Every now and then China makes some threatening military exercises and the USA counters by moving a plane carrier into the area.
Now let’s talk about Tibet. In October 1950 the Chinese People’s Liberation Army troops invaded Tibet. In March, 1959 Tibetans revolted against the Chinese occupation and thousands died battling Chinese troops. The Dalai Lama escaped to India with an estimated 80,000 followers and established a “government-in-exile” in India. China, of course, has occupied Tibet ever since.
I do not think Japan can be compared to China in aggressiveness. The Chinese people do not realize it but China scares other countries in the area a lot. If it were not for US military presence in the region it is very probable that China would use force more often against its neighbors.
[nitpick]Sailor, it was 1956 that the Lhasa uprising took place.[/nitpick]