Tolerance.

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

I was talking with some people I know about recent events; these people are decent, hard working individuals with husbands, wives, and children.

But today I saw their dark sides. They aren’t as decent as I thought. All the good they have done has been overshadowed by the simple fact that some of them are racists.

We were of course, talking about the happenings of yesterday and today, venting some anger, and trying to make sense of things. It was a civil discussion for quite some time but then it turned very ugly.

They didn’t use the term “raghead” but they didn’t need to. What they supported was the slaughter of innocent people in Palestine, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and any country where terrorists might be hiding. Some particularly vile sentiments were directed towards the Lebanese. It was an all encompassing hatred for anyone who wasn’t like them despite the fact neither of them knew any of these people personally. They expressed a hatred of everything Muslim.

They talked about these terrorists thinking that they were going to Muslim heaven and I stopped them. I told them that neither the Q’uran or the teachings of Islam supported this. The people who did this were not followers of Islam and their actions have condemned them all to hell. Muslims around the world have condemned the actions of these terrorists because a true Muslim, one that follows the teaching of Islam and The Prophet would never kill innocent men, women, and children. They did not know the meaning of Hadith and Sadith.

They questioned my sources for this, I replied that I had read and studied the Q’uran and shocked their little Christian souls. I know Muslims, we have had long discussions on this very subject.

I questioned their views and expressed that if war was declared innocents would die, children would suffer the deaths of their families.

The reply was that these children would just grow up to be terrorists. I replied that the children who were fortunate to live through a war would grow up to hate us because we would be the ones who killed their families. I would not blame them if they sought our deaths in the future. I tried to get them to look at things from a different perspective, many children in the middle east are taught that America IS evil, democracy is evil, and that we are all infidels. Palestinian children are taught that Israel is supported by America and that Israeli forces have perpetrated atrocities against them. So they hate the Israelis and the people who support them. If it was YOU, you would probably feel the same way. Some of them might be celebrating in the streets but it a small group of people and does not reflect the thoughts of them all.

I don’t think they got it and it was fortunate that I had to leave for an appointment or I would have gone ballistic.

I have friends who are Muslim and count them as some of the finest people I have ever met. I grew up with East Indians who were nothing but the kindest people on this earth.

I want the people that did this caught and punished in the most severe manner but I cannot bear the thought of more innocents dying be they Christian or Muslim. Children should not be made to pay for the crimes of others.

I want to find pictures of adorable Muslim children so that I might print them off and show them to these people. I want them to tell me to my face that they could support the killing of these children and innocent people.

I want to like them again. I really do.

It may take a while.

2

I don’t think they have sides any darker than you, or anyone else. If I were you, I would be prepared to disregard anything that anyone says in anger over the next week or so. Oh, and to be honest, I wouldn’t lose any sleep over calling Bin Laden, or whoever is responsible, a raghead. I wouldn’t lose sleep calling him ANYTHING. I do agree that bombing women and children (even if they’re do sickening things, like celebrating this tragedy in the streets), is not the answer.

3

TWT - I have a dark side that scares me.

My dark side would never consider harming an innocent.

My dark side would have no problem with having these murderers slowly tortured to death.

What bothered me was that these people expressed their thoughts rationally as if they had spent some time formulating a reason to justify for their hatred. They did not speak as reactionaries. They expressed hatred for peoples they knew nothing about and gave clear reasons why their deaths would not matter.

I have heard the reactionaries espouse wide scale warfare, this was something entirely different. Something ugly that had been festering beneath the surface for some time.

This was their opportunity to let their own darkness out for me to witness.

They scare me to death.

4

Yup, a little bit of tolerance is needed.

There are roughly 7 million Muslims in the United States. They believe in God and Jesus Christ, just like most of your neighbours. (But they also believe in Mohammed.) They think WTC was just as disgusting as you do.

If you really want to blame someone, blame the CIA. That agency trained Osama Bin Laden back in the 80s.

5

Uh, no, I’ll blame Bin Laden, not the people who trained him back when they didn’t have much reason to believe he’d become a rampaging murderer. Why should the CIA be blamed?

6

Let’s not confuse Muslims and Muslim fanatics, and remember in addition that fanaticism is by no means confined to the Muslim world.

7

Should we blame Yale? Stanford? Which university did George Bush Sr. go to? Because Fidel Castro went to the same school, and was his classmate. Training is one thing. Blaming the trainer for what they do with it after is ludicrous.

O

8

Yes, indeed omni! And I, of course, agree with Oicu…I guess Obi-Wan should be blamed for Darth Vader? How about John Wayne Gacy’s Physics Prof? These are rhetorical questions, BTW. :slight_smile:

9

[hijack maybe]
Do these people know that many Palestines and Lebaneses(I don’t know about Afghans or Pakistanis, and I hope I gave the correct names) are Christians? That not all Arabs are Muslims or viceversa?
[/hijack]

10

I have had some similar discussions here. They started when someone said that we should just nuke Afghanistan and get it over with. I couldn’t stay silent on that one. I am not religious, but if Satan were real I am sure he would be smiling and rubbing his hands in glee. They kill innocent people, our loved ones. We kill innocent people, their loved ones. This is justice? Should the women and children in Kabul, many of whom have suffered at the hands of their own government, be held responsible for some crazy man’s actions? Or the actions of their own government? This is not an elected government, it’s a theocratic dictatorship. It’s not even legally recognized by most countries. They are still fighting a civil war.

The USA is a country composed primarily of Christians and founded to a large degree on the basis of religious tolerance. The president is Christian, and I would venture to guess that far and away the majority of our elected and military leadership is Christian. We see that any terrorist that launches these attacks is in violation of the tenets of Islam, but we just as easily abandon the tenets of Christianity. No, I don’t believe that turn the other cheek is the appropriate response here. But mass destruction of innocents is sinking to their level. Then they’ve won. And it’s like cutting off the head of the hydra. You kill one and two more with even more rage are left.

Somehow we have to find a way to deflate the situation. Arrest the leadership. Don’t give them the glory of a martyr’s death. Let them rot in prison with a view to see that they have lost. In solitary confinement with 24 hour CNN access. To see that they have not won. That they do not matter. That they have not brought us to the dark side with them. That bigots and zealots and others who thrive on hate can be tolerated since they are, in some fashion, human, but that they will not control our lives. That their voices are puny. That ours is indeed a better way.

11

The general populations in those countries very, very rarely have anything to do with such acts of terrorism, extremism, fanaticism, except when it comes to retribution. Then, they usually are among its first victims. This is the true tragedy. That people with no political agenda whatsoever, decent, hard-working people, are made to pay for their political masters bent upon eradicating Evil by whatever means. Violence oftentimes begets violence. Intolerance begets intolerance. Sad but true fact of life. Two days ago, thousands of innocent Americans paid the price with their lives.

Will this lead the U.S. to nuance its policy towards the Arab world, or will it on the contrary serve to justify the hardening of what some had already qualified as an inflexible position? I’d be willing to bet on the latter. Will it advance world peace? I’d be willing to bet not.

12

hmmmm…somehow this smacks of hypocrisy…[sarcasm]yes, let’s be tolerant and understanding toward the religion (however misconstrued) of those who’ve murdered our innocents, but if those little souled Christians express any anger or outrage(however misplaced), let’s allow our own personal bigotry to be exposed. It’s ok, they’re just stupid “little souls”.[sarcasm]
I’ve spoken with many people about this tragedy, and NO ONE, NOT ONE PERSON, has expressed any wish to see innocent people die, or to see ANY more bloodshed, for that matter.
It may well occur, and more innocents may well die, but it’s not something that anyone I’ve encountered wishes for.
You are just speaking more divisiveness into being. Thanks.