Anyone that wants to complain about how this thread treats new posters is more than welcome to go through it and count the number of new posters called out that were not eventually banned as socks, trocks, and trolls.
Unless you can show that the posters in the thread are constantly getting it wrong, as opposed to constantly getting it right (I’d bet the high 90s), the complaint is baseless.
It’s not, though. This thread is a pillory and while that’s fine for trolls and trocks it’s not okay for even low-percentage collateral damage. It’s not like we have a robust retention rate for new posters.
I agree that this thread points out a lot of genuine trolls but is it a better early warning system than just flagging a post? Seems like the main value add here is backpatting and finger wagging (which I have also participated in).
Not a hill I’m going to die on but I’ve definitely noticed a bit of a torches and pitchforks vibe lately, and sometimes the “evidence” isn’t much more than “if they were really new they wouldn’t be so comfortable hanging out with us.”
That’s kind of fucked up and if I found myself called out like that I would get out immediately.
+1
(and I’m done)
I agree as well. It’s not like we either call people out as early as possible, or we’re stuck with trolls.
Mention them here as soon as they show actual trollish behavior, and they’ll be gone soon enough. We don’t really gain much by raising the flag on someone who fits our idea of a pattern.
TL;DR: I think we should have a low tolerance for false positives.
But…but…discobot is always encouraging us to welcome new posters to the community. What’s more welcoming than a hazing ritual?
/s, in case anyone needs it.
Sometimes there’s no individual post that it makes any sense to flag, but there’s a pattern that genuinely indicates bad behavior.
I haven’t checked into this case enough to have an opinion about it.
If that actually is the evidence, then it’s not evidence at all. Some people lurk for months or years until they know enough about the place to feel comfortable, or at least reasonably comfortable, hanging out somewhere before they start posting. That seems to me like a reasonable thing to do; and in fact it’s what I did.
You can flag an individual post and in the message to the mods say “keep an eye on this person”
I will add my voice to those seeing this as gate keeping. Lets save this thread for recognition of actual trollish behavior.
I dunno - it’s kind of hard on the goats.
That’s exactly what prompted me to reply. The post in question listed nothing problematic, weird, questionable or in any way trollish from the new person. Their sole “evidence” to watch out for someone was that 20-somethings don’t post here.
One, to the thread, sorry for creating this mess that has apparently obsessed some of our posters.
Two, that is once again an incorrect assessment of what I actually postered @Eyebrows_0f_Doom. Now, I’ll fully own up for “profiling” a possible poster based on past trends, but I won’t accept you mischaracterizing me for a SECOND time after I called you out before. Since you couldn’t be bothered to actually quote me, this is what I said:
So my first mention is that they match existing patterns. I did mention that they identified as a “20-something” but I did it in the context of the whole “posting on an old fashioned message board with a ton of confidence” which is again something we’ve noted as a tell of a large number of trolls and trocks especially one with a just created profile (a few days old).
Now, I fully granted the first time you attacked and misrepresented me that it was unfair, and not the nicest experience. And if others don’t like it, they don’t have to do the same, and I can absolutely keep opinions to myself if it disrupts the thread, it’s no sweat at all.
But I’m not going to let you fucking lie about what I did and did not say in the Pit. You can say it’s unfair (which I granted), it’s not nice (which I granted), and isn’t welcoming (which I granted).
But don’t fucking lie about what I did say. If anyone is currently on my troll-dar (*) it’s you.
(*) - No, I don’t think you’re a troll. I just think you’re being a dick to me in the Pit, where it’s allowed and more or less a given. But misrepresenting me is a big stress point for me, and you’re walking all over it. And you’re being cowardly about it, by NOT quoting what I actually said.
I’m not seeing any obsession whatsoever. I also don’t think it’s about you specifically: I’ve been noticing this trend for a while and have been tempted to say something a few times. I’m not going to scroll back and audit the troll hunting but I doubt you’re the only one dragging the dunking stool out for new posters.
That said:
This is silly. Of course posting about somebody here is a public accusation.
Getting misrepresented here would be very stressful for me, too. Probably pretty stressful for anybody.
No subtlety awards for ol’ Johnny
@ParallelLines , I know you to be a nice person.
Nice persons get eaten up.
You’re smart. You know a bunch about how things work here.
Most folks, me included took your post as what you meant it to say.
Let it go.
Water off a ducks back…and all.
Thanks @Beckdawrek, but I’d like to address @Johnny_Bravo’s points.
While I say obsession, it’s probably inaccurate then. We had a LOT more response to this one than quite a few prior, similar mentions in this and prior threads. So I was surprised. But based on what JB and others mentioned, they had similar feelings but had been quiet up until now. So more a sudden upwelling of prior concerns that came to a head now, rather than a sudden obsession. No sweat, my misunderstanding.
I think what I see here is a difference in intent. I did NOT mean to post this as an accusation in the first post, which is why I tried to be clear on why I wasn’t making an accusation, and why I hoped it was a false positive. But, like a lot of things, my intent doesn’t mean it isn’t a de facto accusation as well. So I’ll mea culpa on this. My intentions may have been benign, but, results can and do often outweigh them.
It’s an accusation of a suspicion, which is about as meaningful as a concept of a plan.
I sympathize toward wanting to be welcoming, to be more careful and to not immediately suspect every new person of being a troll and/or sock. The only other online community where I’ve spent anywhere near as much time as I’ve spent here was Wikipedia, and one of the essential core tenets of that place is “Assume Good Faith”. Assume that people are sincere, assume they are trying to do the right thing, even if they make mistakes and cause problems, and especially if you disagree with them. And that became an important part of my behavior on the web as well, and carried over to here.
But time and time again, people have said that a certain person is a trock, and I thought, just in case I’ll be nice and helpful… And nope, I’m the dipshit wasting his time because sure enough, they were a trock. Over and over again. I’ve even been attacked on this board for doing that (not exaggerating, I’ve had people just down my throat for trying to be welcoming). And for the most part, they’re right.
I wish that these new people I see are genuine, because we really could use them. But Lucy is just going to pull that fucking football away at the last second AGAIN and you’re going to fall on your back. I wish the people throwing around accusations were being paranoid and overly bitter… But they’re almost always not.
Reality sucks.
I KINDA want to make a joke about spinning this off into its own thread about the thread, but I’m blanking…
Very cool of you to mea your culpas: respect. For what it’s worth I don’t question your intent. I just think this thread has just become overly enthusiastic and maybe there’s a bit too much all-around eagerness to get credit for firing the first shot, as it were.
I agree with you. They’re almost always right. But these jerks are going to get caught no matter what. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with waiting for actual bad behavior and not a prediction of it (and you can always send a report if you have a suspicious prediction to make).
If i joined an online community and found that people were talking about me in a thread called “Trolls R Us,” I wouldn’t stick around to worry about whether I was being accused of a bad thing or being accused of a pattern of a thing that might one day be bad. I’d just leave.
And yet mods have thanked people for documenting things here and have said it’s helpful. I’ll trust their word over yours.
Which is why we are not allowed to link to them here. Because you are right about that. But unless you go and tell them about it, they’re not going to know.
And if they somehow become the unicorn that sticks around long enough to show they aren’t a troll, an early suspicion isn’t going to mean much by then. I am not aware of a single moment where an innocent poster brand new to the board stumbled upon any of the troll threads, found their name, and left in a huff, or someone who did the same after being here for an extended period of time. You’re concerned about something that doesn’t happen.
edited: You know what? I said I wasn’t going to die on this hill. I’ve said my piece.