Trump is not the end of the world. Trump gone is not the dawn of a new age of wonderfulness.

Trump is awful. We’ve had (varying degrees of) awful before. We’ll get over it and move on.

This country/world has a hell of a lot more problems than Trump. When Trump is gone, there will still be a lot of other problems. There is plenty that can be done about those other problems with or without Trump. We might as well focus on those other problems and not just wait for Trump to be gone so we can feel better again.

This is a very freeing point of view. I kind of wish more people would try it.

Yep, we’ve had worse Presidents. They served before the 24 hour news cycle hyped every story. Think about Grant and the other Presidents in the late 19th century.

Imagine Teddy Roosevelt dealing with CNN. :wink: He’d use the Big Stick on those talking heads that jabber endlessly all day long.

I have studied Teddy’s Presidency and admire him. But he would have found the modern media very difficult. He had enough headaches with yellow journalism.

He isn’t the end of the world. But the fact that 63 million Americans voted for him makes a lot of us think that the US will face very serious threats to democracy and competence in the coming decades. America may not have the human capital to maintain competent western civilization when so many of us abandon all morals and principles to support tribalism.

The fact that much of the world isn’t as deranged as America isn’t much comfort for those of us who live here.

Remember Tammany Hall and Boss Tweed in NY?

It’s influenced Presidential elections since Jefferson.

The country still thrived and certainly survived.

I’m not sure what happened with my link. I saw the full Tammany Hall report that covered all the Presidential elections. It was a very interesting read.

Now it’s only giving a outline and asking for a login. I can’t imagine why. The link may work if you paste it directly into Chrome.

That’s a pretty worthless library link.

He is not the end of the world. But, by setting the bar at that level, neither was Hitler.

The world may not end, but the suffering in it may increase. Individuals may die due to lack of access to healthcare that he has cut, due to a lack of response to storms and other natural disasters, due to a lack of protection of vulnerable populations.

Parents may never see their children again, after the were ripped from their arms by agents that prevented them from claiming asylum, and lied to them to tell them that if they gave up their claims, they would be reunited.

Minorities are suffering from an uptick in hate crimes, as the president has normalized racism and bigotry, allowing those who thrive on hate to come out of the shadows.

People will suffer from economic devastation if the economy cracks under the strain of his poorly thought out trade wars.

Yes. Like a turd, Trump will soon pass.

Trumps voters will still be here. That is the problem. They will just vote for the next dangerously incompetent, treasonous white nationalist who hoves into their field of vision.

Trump is simply part of the process of America’s collapse into a theocratic/plutocratic white nationalist dictatorship; when he’s gone that process will still be as ongoing and unstoppable as it has been for decades. America is over the cliff and headed down the abyss, and it’s far too late to stop it.

Nothing’s stopping you from immigrating to somewhere that is more to your liking.

I mean, except for the fact that other countries actually do enforce immigration laws and expect you to prove you will be a productive member of their society before they will let you in. Somehow the idea of America enforcing standards for immigration causes much butthurt, but it is not like other countries have indiscriminate open borders either.

The ongoing persecution is agaisnt non-whites in general, not immigrants. Being a citizen won’t protect you from ICE brownshirts.

Trump doesn’t make me angry. Trump is the symptom, not the cause. THAT makes me angry.

More like a kidney stone.

I cannot imagine any of the presidents in my memory* who I feared would launch a nuclear strike in a fit of pique. Reagan may have been belligerent toward the USSR, but I very much doubt he would have acted rashly. Trump, I’m not so sure.

Pence is diametrically opposed to everything I believe in, but I don’t think he’d push the button in a narcissistic rage. A competent president and White House might be better at enacting policies I don’t agree with, but I think the threat of a nuclear exchange with North Korea would be miniscule.

Then again, Trump seems to love him some Kim Jong Un, so maybe he’d nuke, I don’t know, Canada.

*My memory of presidents goes back to Ford. It’s possible Nixon might have gotten that crazy; there are recordings of him talking about using nukes in Vietnam, though in context he might have been pulling Kissinger’s leg.

The level of corruption in this administration isn’t that far from Grant and Harding. But if that was the only problem, Trump certainly be only normally corrupt and vile. He hasn’t even had a crisis yet to screw up. Wait until he does, then the bottom will fall out.
Shrub wasn’t the end of the world either, but he was to those who died in his needless war in Iraq.

There is a second paragraph to my original post. In case anyone hadn’t noticed.

Yes, Trump voters will still be here. That is one of the many problems that could and should be addressed even now while Trump is still in office.

I am trying to draw attention to the fact that many people are so focused on Trump that they can’t seem to see anything beyond that. What comes after resistance?

Death. America is in the end stages of sliding into fascism, and we know how that ends up.

Believe me I’ve thought of it.

Affordable health care that can’t be taken away. Sane politics. Stupidity is a bad thing. Mandated employee benefits. Lots of other western nations sound fairly nice.

Also the gop uses immigration as a dog whistle for nativism the same way they use words like thug or inner city as dog whistles for racism. But yes a working immigration policy is good.

…of course people can see “beyond the resistance.” Are you not listening? Universal healthcare. Better gun control. There has been plenty of talk about what to do next.

But here’s the problem.

You can’t “just wait” for Trump to not be a problem.

Because you can’t afford to just wait it out.

The conservatives control the legislature, the executive, and are doing everything in their power to take control of the judiciary. Getting rid of Trump won’t bring about the dawn of “a new age of wonderfulness.” But it will stop the “rubber stamping” of policy that is devastating communities and will take years to repeal. It will stop the systematic destruction of the United States Federal Government as we knew it. It would hasten the removal of unelected-policy makers like Stephen Miller and Jared Kushner from power. These things are important.

People are more than capable of doing more than one-thing-at-a-time you know.

Trump isn’t the end of the world (probably - there’s still a non-zero chance he might start a nuclear war and literally be the end of the world). But Trump is a major problem. So we should be addressing the problem of Trump being President and doing all we can to fix it. At the very least, let’s try to make sure he’s only a four year problem rather than an eight year problem.

At best, Trump is doing nothing on problems that we should be addressing. In some cases, Trump is moving us further away from the solution. And Trump is poisoning the well; he’s lowering the standards for what’s acceptable which will make it easier for future incompetents to become President.