Trump is too far out there.

Politics & Elections
21

Oh, you mean like Trump?

Trump’s tax plan would cost 12 trillion dollars.

His proposals to deal with the debt are simply completely unworkable.

Everything he demands we cut is peanuts compared to the absolutely gigantic tax giveaways he’s proposing, and he refuses to touch the biggest parts of the budget - the military, social security, and medicare.

Even if literally the only issue you care about is the debt. Even if you don’t care about the rights of American muslims, even if you don’t care about upholding the Geneva Convention, even if you don’t care that he fundamentally has no useful policy proposals, even then Donald Trump is a nightmare, and his policies would be terrible for America.

There’s no media spin in just straight-up quoting the guy. The reason it sounds like there’s no depth at all is because Trump has no depth. He’s just a loudmouthed blowhard with no filter between his thoughts and his words, and no interest in telling the truth.

Well please, by all means - what is Trump on about when he says we should bring back torture and kill the families of terrorists? What is he really on about? What are his concrete policy proposals? What does he want to do? What are his plans? There’s not a whole lot there. Whereas Clinton has offered dozens of concrete policy proposals, their projected ramifications, and how she intends to go about achieving them, Trump has offered a paltry handful of unrealistic, completely nonsensical policy proposals (for example, he’s wrong about just about everything with regards to china), with virtually no analysis surrounding them. People have taken the time to try to get to the bottom of it, and so far every indication is that he really is just as vapid and stupid as he looks.

You think I’m wrong, by all means, let’s talk policy. What concrete policies does Trump support that you think are reasonable? See, the reality is exactly the opposite of what you say. There’s no depth here, and what the media is doing is not spinning, it’s accurate reporting. Trump’s proposals are few and far between, and when he does offer any details, they reveal a fundamental lack of understanding about the world that ought to terrify anyone who does get it.

Yes. Quoting a person and taking them at their word is a “stupid game”. Actually trying to hold a politician’s feet to the fire makes someone a “filthy whore”. :rolleyes: What you’re saying makes no sense.

Right, so if you can’t pass policy under normal situations, the correct answer is to wait until one of those moments comes where the government has to work together to avoid the country blowing up, and then start making demands. If you can’t pass your agenda by getting your guys voted in and forming a bipartisan coalition (or getting enough votes that you don’t need bipartisanship), the correct response is to start taking hostages. Gotcha.

Really? You’d think it would have made the news - “Democrats refuse to uphold debt ceiling, force politically charged standoff that leads to our credit rating sinking”.

Oh wait, that never happened. There’s a big difference between a protest vote that doesn’t actually matter and taking hostages.

22

Trump has said several times he would like to not just encourage self-deportation, but use brute force deportation forces.

Thing about illegal immigration is that many of the illegals work off the books for cash, self-deportation schemes wouldn’t work that well.

23

Working off the books is illegal, and Americans who get caught doing it get hit hard by the IRS.

24

Hiring a person to work off the books is illegal. Willful failure to file income tax returns showing income earned and willful failure to pay taxes due are illegal. But I know of no law that requires an employee to verify their employer’s bookkeeping practices.

The IRS has no problem with anyone working on or off the books as long as they file their returns and pay their taxes.

25

I know it’s a bit simplistic and overly broad, but the Trump phenomenon is probably the ‘white man’s last stand’ in the minds of many of his most staunch defenders. The fact that Trump swept through Dixie like a spring time tornado is proof that his success is largely based on racial identity. As the race moves forward, some conservatives and independents might be willing to jump on to his bandwagon out of fear and loathing over Hillary and liberals, but Trump’s base consists of paranoid whites who want to take their frustrations out on historically easy targets.

26

How about campaigning in California, which is reliably blue, and Texas, which is reliably red? That also ought to set off alarm bells, as a republican candidate ought to be out trying to win states that are in play.

Or how about the fact that his campaign is apparently now going broke after suggesting that he was able to self-fund? This is another in a growing list of examples that paints Trump as nothing more than one gigantic fraud.

Trump has had the worst two or three weeks of his campaign, and he isn’t even close to getting past the controversy. Say what one wants about the election process, but being able to run a strategic campaign actually does say a lot about one’s fitness to serve. Someone with the discipline to build an organization and implement strategy to win in race after race, up to and including the general elections, probably has the ability to apply some of those skills to the office of president. Trump may have won the republican party, but he didn’t come close to winning a majority of the party, and he probably never will. He capitalized on a field that was weak and voters who were pathologically angry. He’s now having a rough go of it and seems completely lost in trying to apply his bag of tricks to a much broader demographic spectrum.

27

This is also true of Bernie Sanders though. As 538.com points out, economic pessimism in general is limited to white folks. Minorities are much more optimistic and that translates into support for the status quo.

28

This whole “media lies” meme is a last ditch desperate attempt to discredit facts by simply dismissing them. When you can’t present credible evidence to support a counter argument, you resort to calling facts lies.

The the worst kind of willful ignorance.

29

The difference, however, is that Bernie Sanders voters, while white, don’t necessarily blame non-whites for their misery. They blame corporations who exploit foreign labor and weaken domestic labor rights and protections here. That’s a huge difference in how they see the world. Bernie Sanders voters don’t feel threatened by the foreigners; they feel threatened by corporations and those who take their money in order to further their political careers.

30

I won’t argue that point, but I will reiterate that Sanders’ movement is not actually the future, but the past. Young whites are still whites and thus a declining portion of the population, and already they are apparently disgruntled. Either they’ll become older, happier whites like their minority counterparts, or they’ll be old and bitter and support Trump-like candidates like many of the former McGovern Bros do today.

The “coalition of the ascendant” is the coalition of the economic status quo. White progressives are going to be as marginalized as white conservatives. The difference is that we see the danger approaching. Your white dudes think they are going to lead a movement. If that was possible, Sanders would have been able to win minority voters better. In the end, he did about as well as a Republican would. It’s over for both of our aspirations, perhaps.

Interestingly, an article was published today that made the case that Sanders is not the future of the party. Obama is.

31

This is wrong. We have never denied entry based upon religion. We have restricted citizens from countries we were at war with, but we are not at war with Islam. Those who want us to be are nutballs.
“Too much for modern sensibilities” counts as out of bounds deal breaker. The Chinese policies 100+ years ago fit with sensibilities at the time but it wasn’t because they were Confucians.

32

On the list of reasons to block people from entering the country, I would think race is a much more awful thing than religion. Religious discrimination is built into our system, since any immigrant has to accept modern Western values as a condition of living here.

33

Denying entry based on race is perhaps much more awful but both are deal breakers. The rest of your post is unclear. “Any immigrant has to accept modern Western values as a condition of living here.” What does this mean? Sounds pretty freaky to me.

34

If a religion requires that blasphemers or fornicators be stoned to death or it requires involuntary female genital mutilation or the sale of child brides, would you propose that immigrants that adhere to this religion be allowed to practice these parts of it in the name of religious tolerance?

35

“I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God.”

36

I guess that’ll be the first time anyone’s lied under oath.

37

I understand that persons immigrating need to behave themselves and follow the law. I see this as different than accepting modern Western values. Do Amish have modern western values?

38

How can they reduce the spending on the money they’ve already spent? Raising the debt ceiling is for paying the bills Congress already incurred.

39

Besides, this conversation has moved from “Muslims cannot enter the US” to “those who want to be citizens of the US have to accept modern western values.”

40

Christianity requires this too. Fortunately, most Christians do not abide by those rules – just as most Muslims don’t.