Trump -- (lack of) intelligence/personality (disorders)

Another thread got derailed talking about Trump’s intelligence (or lack thereof) and personality (disorders).

But I think it’s an interesting topic.

My take:

He’s definitely a character that could have been conjured by a triumvirate of William Golding, Peter Benchley, and George Orwell

He’s purpose-built, running on fairly basic programming, as distinct from rational and deliberate thoughts

I think he’s of at least slightly above average intelligence, but his super power – really, really – is a totally sociopathic flavor of marketing genius, and it seems wholly intuitive to me.

He’s like the only high-profile man to speak Esperanto fluently, and he has found an audience that only speaks Esperanto, and who have – while understanding some others who are NOT Donald Trump – never understood, or felt understood by, any politician in quite the way they feel about him.

He’s as intelligent or as unintelligent as any demagogue or cult leader who came before him or will come after him. And at least as broken, as humans go.

Kyle Reese: You still don’t get it, do you? He’ll find her! That’s what he does! That’s ALL he does! You can’t stop him! He’ll wade through you, reach down her throat and pull her [expletive omitted] heart out!

–The Terminator (1984)

@Aspenglow : if you get bored and have the chance, I’d welcome the OT posts from the Mar-A-Lago docs thread here :slight_smile:

IMHO, Trump is a lot smarter than you give him credit for.

Never underestimate the intelligence of your opponent.

No one has ever gone broke overestimating Trump’s stupidity.

I mean, Clinton literally lost the 2016 election overestimating Trump’s stupidity.

He’s evil, he’s incapable of distinguishing between truth and lie, he’s sociopathic, he’s dangerous to our democracy and the world at large–all of this is true. But the man has some genius at his specific skillset, and the last seven years have been full of people underestimating that genius and being ruined in the process.

Sharks are very good at certain things. Same idea.

How many people said, probably literally, “he’d be stupid not to pay me, I’m his lawyer”?

I’m saying he’s not stupid enough to write down notes about criminal conspiracy, and you’re saying he is.

I am confuse.

Big difference between “stupid” and “evil.”

I agree, she underestimated Trump’s capacity for evil, or more precisely the voters’ tolerance for evil as a virtue. But I don’t think she overestimated his stupidity. She had him pegged, correctly, as the dumbest candidate for POTUS ever.

That’s my point.

“Dumb” in what sense? Certainly not in the sense of knowing what will get him elected. He’s very, very skilled at campaigning.

Even now, I think you’re overestimating his stupidity, assuming it applies to areas where it doesn’t. He didn’t just luck into the presidency: he made a strategically sound plan and followed it.

If we keep assuming he’s dumb, we’re likely to end up with another term from him. Don’t do that.

Excellent point.

Trump is at least of average intelligence and has used a very specialized skill set his whole life.
He was able to trigger the greed blinders in an endless parade of people who thought this idiot was never going to screw them, they all thought they were screwing him.

His slightly stupid act is very, very effective.

I don’t believe he is dumb, not for a minute. He knows he lost the election, that Russia is our enemy and that mask did prevent transmission of covid (he has germaphopia for fucks sake). He just uses his smarts to manipulate people, he gets a rush from doing such things. Corporate America is full of assholes like him, which is why many of them support him. They get the strategy of lying to the peons for their own gains.

The abortion crowd made a deal with the devil to get him to pack the Supreme Court. The bisiness crowd went along with his tax cuts in order to line their pockets. And right wing news went along with his lies to boost their ratings (and profits). Not dumb from an evil perspective. Dangerous is what he is.

“Dumb” in the sense that you, or any stranger to me on the SDMB, almost certainly far outscores him by any objective standard of intelligence, you name it: IQ, GPA, SAT, ability to recognize animals on a drawing. Whatever standard you choose, I will put a lot of money down on you beating his ass six ways to Sunday.

If you let me choose myself by any standard you like, I will bet at least half my life savings that my intelligence outstrips his.

Come on. The man’s an imbecile.

An evil imbecile? Absolutely. An insane imbecile? Possibly, depending on your definition of insane. An ambitious, manipulative imbecile? Positively–that’s the secret of his success. But an imbecile, for sure.

He certainly has a set of skills or talents that he is very, very good at, as evidenced by the fact that he managed to win the Presidency. The question is just whether one calls that particular talent a sort of intelligence.

I agree. I think Trump has a specific assortment of inclinations, instincts, and evil charisma that was perfectly suited for his moment in time. But I don’t think he would have had a different playbook thirty years ago—he’d have just failed utterly indulging the same inclinations.

I think he’s pretty dumb. Intellectually incurious, close-minded, uninformed, horrible critical thinking skills. But lucky him, his natural biases played to the deplorables. He keeps lobbing insults and threats to whomever he perceives as enemies—he is incapable of controlling that impulse—and the base eats it up.

He may occasionally think that he should play up a particular greatest hit, but my perception is that for the most part he just does what he has always done. If that’s smart, whatever…

I disagree. I never for a moment believed he wanted, intended, or expected to win the 2016 election. I even started a poll thread to that effect way back in August 2015.

I think he wanted the attention that running got him, enjoyed insulting and trouncing all the other republican candidates, and loved, Loved, LOVED the adulation he got at the rallies.

But he expected to lose, as did pretty much everyone else before Comey brought up the e-mail again a few weeks before the election. He planned to lose, then start up a media platform to whine and moan that the election had been rigged and, most importantly, grift his supporters.

Somewhere there is a video of Trump headquarters at the moment the election was called for him, and Ivanka is very excited, but the look on his face makes it perfectly clear he is not happy, and this is not what he wanted. It’s been posted here, but I searched YouTube and couldn’t find it. If someone can find it for us, watch it and tell me that’s the face of someone who wanted to win.

I think he’d flunk almost any test that your average high school might give to students, but he is very cunning.

Or at least he was. I’m not sure what is going on in his evil brain right now. He is most definitely deteriorating.

Look at it like this, which is a reductive way of looking at it:

Say he ran for President in 2016 on a simple platform: “Kill all the Muslims, the Jews, the wogs in general.”

That’s it. No depth, no nuance, no more than I’m giving you.

He probably would have lost, right? Even dopey Hilary could have won against that, running the worst campaign ever.

But say he won running on that platform, which I don’t think you can argue he definitely wouldn’t have. Grant me the possibility that such a platform would have gained him the presidency.

Would that mean he wasn’t dumb? If so, I grant you your measure of his intelligence. Otherwise, no.

My preferred word is “cunning.”

One can be very stupid and yet still be very cunning.

Hilary Clinton is not dopey, she is a very smart accomplished woman.

I don’t think Bibi would have supported Trump if he’d been calling to kill all the jews. He might be saying shit like that now, but I don’t think he was saying it then.

We don’t need any word besides “narcissist.” The term covers everything about trump, his worldview, and the way he operates.

The Narcissist Checklist

Being self-enamored, self-absorbed
A strong need for control
Demonstrating low levels of empathy
An attitude of entitlement
Chronically mismanaged anger
Manipulative or exploitive behavior
Feeling superiority over others
Living in an alternate reality
Being pathologically defensive.

Also-- from the same link. Each one is explained there.

1) Public self and private self do not match.

2) Loyalty toward you is superficial at best.

3) They cannot admit mistakes at all.

4) Lots of unsolicited advice.

5) Introspective thinking is virtually non-existent.

6) They make many comments to remind you of your obligations toward them.

7) They will “other” people who do not fit their mold.

8) Idealized fantasies are routinely pursued.

9) They are attracted toward people, themes, and activities implying power.

10) Emotional vulnerability is awkward.

11) Willingness to lie or leave out important facts.

12) The use of veiled threats.

13) Extremes in managing money.

14) Responds to confrontation with irrational anger. .

15) Being persistently dismissive of others’ feelings.

16) Stealing affirmation from others.

17) Chronic undertow of frustration and annoyance.

18) Many double standards.

19) A very poor comprehension of love.

20) No real appreciation for your boundaries.