This is your evidence…a phone call about political discussions? You suffer from some serious confirmation bias.
Interesting that you categorize negatively anyone who has the audacity to be skeptical.
Different people find different things interesting. I find it interesting that the only major coverage of the Nuland call was commentary on the “fuck the EU” statement. I find it interesting that anyone who takes the coup-denying position never grapples with bare facts and instead engages in rhetorical tricks to dismiss the coup-recognizers as outside the spectrum of allowable American political discourse.
Here’s a videotaped recording of President Obama rigging the NCAA basketball tournament: link.
Because we all know that if a politician says they support somebody - whether it’s the Kansas basketball team or some Ukranian politician - it means they are pulling levers in an eeeeeeeevil way.
And we all know that coup talk is always done on unscrambled phone lines. I know that because I’ve seen “Homeland” and “24.”
Just to be clear here, we’re comparing outright colonialism and pillaging to an extremely conspiratorial interest in supporting non-violent regime change in Russia. Even assuming that everything you guys are saying is true, there’s still no contest here.
Russia is the ONLY actor that has violated Ukraine’s sovereignty, intervening militarily and supporting separatists and annexing Crimea-in contravention of he 1994 agreement in which U.S, Russia and Britain pledged to respect Ukraine’s sovereignty.
Neither the U.S nor NATO intervened militarily into Ukraine. Russia was the one who in hurry held a fake, bogus “referendum” on Crimea s wishing to join Russia. All in one week!! And here was no coup d’etat, the stooge president of Ukraine was impeached by parliament, many of whom were of his own PARTY.
I don’t understand why it is so difficult for Putin worshippers to rasp that Ukraine chose to become closer to the EU, and has that right? It’s simply none of Russia’s business whatsoever, I know it’s painful to see former Soviet nations leave and join the West but hey have a right to because they are their own nation.
So no sweetheart but Russia is the one who caused problems in Ukraine, not NATO, America, or the Bilderberg agenda setters, or evil bankers. By the way Putin is a such coward that he loved for months about not supporting terrorists in Ukraine’s east and the presence of Russian troops in that region. Evidence proved otherwise. Russians are poor liars I have to say.
I remember in Sept 2013 when Obama decided against bombing Bashar Assad’s targets in Syria, many lauded Putin as a peacemaker who put America in it’s place and what not. Hilarious that exactly two years later Russia ended up go full throttle into that conflict, again lying and B.S-ing how it’s aim is only to destroy ISIS. Of course everyone knows Putin’s aim is to support the butcher of Damascus and destroying all military opponents EXCEPT ISIS.
Some kind of peacemaker huh? Contrary to what you worshippers believe, Putin is a thug who no genius, having annexed a region of Ukraine that does not border Russia at all, is spending billions on the region and has been kicked out of the G7, sanctions have driven it’s economy to the toilet. All because of Crimea!!
Man what a genius Vladimir is!!
Hilary Clinton is the only onexception who will stand up to Putin, Sanders and Trump will be walked upon and made fools by him. Putin’s dream of having a non interventionist or stooge in America is evaporating in front of his eyes. First Sanders will be gone this week, second in November when Trump is roundly defeated.
This right here, initially hey will underestimate and misread one another. Putin will think Trump means a free hand to do as he pleases around the world, heck even joining into an alliance. Trump will think Putin actually respects him and hat they have the same objectives. But once Putin starts getting out of hand, there will be pressure on Trump to do something. Soon he will look likeep a fool, and his bombastic style will look hollow. Trump is a hinks skinned guy who is mindful of not being taken advantage of and his image not being tarnished. He sees himself as a tough guy. When he realizes Putin has been playing him, things will go down south.
Emphasis mine.
I direct other readers’ attention to the language used. Those who agree with him are ‘coup-recognizers;’ he assumes that his thesis is established fact. Those who disagree are taking a ‘coup-denying position,’ claiming that we just refuse to see the truth.
Without an ounce of actual proof.
It would be less embarassing if you just ignored the call instead of trying to do some type of routine in order to dance around it.
“We” are doing no such thing, nice try. To give your point a chance let’s assume Putin’s actions can be called “pillaging” (hey I’m all for hyperbole, but c’mon).
I am comparing Trump’s refusal to antagonize Russia, and Hillary Clinton’s dangerous stance on Russia and NATO expansionism. Where have I said U.S. government policy in Ukraine was worse than Russian policy in Ukraine? I’ll wait…
And staging a coup was what now?
Of course not, Yats was in power, and Yarosh had the paramilitary outfit. The bombing of the Donbass was quite within the abilities of the Nuland-orchestrated gang, why would the U.S. and NATO be needed? Of course we did have calls from some people in the U.S. goverment urging a more open intervention, and that was never carried out, you’re right.
That was an unconstitutional act. Even Poreshenko admits this much. In any case, if there are armed paramilitary outfits occupying government buildings, its time to do as they say.
Individuals act. Not entire countries of ethnically diverse populations.
I also believe in the right of self-determination. That’s why I was against the rape of the Donbass. You?
Wow, the citizens of the Donbass are terrorists now. Were you on the Maidan eating cookies with the other Neo-Nazis?
Obama was forced into inaction by the overwhelming verdict of the American people (with aid from the courageous Brits).
Never happened.
No he is a killer like Obama, except not as effective.
Everyone wants the U.S. military to fight their battles for them. Hillary Clinton is definitely the one you want in this case.
Yes, if you refuse to admit proof is proof, there isn’t any.
OK Will, I just want to make this clear. You are absolutely convinced that your theory is the truth…and that those of us who disagree are deluded. Is this correct?
Will, you keep saying, “Trump’s refusal to antagonize Putin” like it means anything. Trump has not had the opportunity to antagonize Putin. He’s said 360 degrees of EVERYTHING. We could’ve, should’ve, ect. is just hot air from him. His biggest meme, his selling point, is that he’ll TAKE BACK POWER, GET THE UPPER HAND, GET THE ADVANTAGE over any country he negotiates with.
No, that won’t “antagonize” Putin at all.
A fair point. Trump is a loose cannon. Though he has had plenty of opportunities to antagonize Putin. It would have put him in line with his party and caused him less grief from the John Mccains and Lindsey Grahams of the world. The fact that he hasn’t ratcheted up rhetoric toward Putin tells me he is less anti-Russian than Hillary Clinton who has compared Putin to Hitler. If Trump had made such an outrageous comparison, many people would have admonished him. With Clinton it’s all good, nothing to see here.
If “peace” candidate is being endorsed by Islamist/Communist and anti-Semite George Galloway, then I guess he is!
Pfft nobody likes Putin, except, of course, Trumpy (surprise). Not even a blip on the nuclear fireball of Curiel-bashing.
I recognize your expertise when it comes to embarrassing arguments, but I still have no idea what you think needs to be explained.
Except when it’s a “coup,” right?
Dubya thought he could see into Pooty-Poot’s soul.
Bob Trumpy hasn’t weighed in yet AFAIK.
No disrespect to Bob… 
Sooo… how is this working out?
About as well as we feared.
It’s always fun to read these older threads and enjoy the overconfident “[blank] is going to be President. Get over it.” But this one:
Is a thing of beauty. Three months in, Trump provokes Russia with both a missile attack and expanding NATO. Oh me, oh my.
Not to mention that his “anti-war statements” are now lost in the mists of time. Last week.