Trump to attend Black journalists' convention

[Happy_Lendervedder]

@split_p_j

I’ve only watched the beginning of the convention interview, but he is clearly trying to hit this point. He is definitely being advised by some in the black community to do this. He’s is saying that she is not “Black” and that resonates with a portion of the black community.

A person can be Black and not be a descendant of American slaves. There are Black French people, Jamaican, Cuban, Kenyan, Nigerian, British, etc.

Now, maybe being African-American is something that connects certain Black people culturally and ancestrally. But to be Black has nothing to do with having slaves in your family tree.

"Black/African American" - Black Cultural Erasure in Genetic Counseling.

ETA: writing this as a lilly-white dude. Not trying to white-splain anything here. This is what I’ve read in various places and heard from Black folks over the past few years. I don’t think Kamala Harris has ever called herself “African-American,” but I’m pretty sure she’s always considered herself Black, as Jamaican people are.

[kenobi_65]

@split_p_j

She is not seen as a Black American descendant of chattel slavery because she’s not.

Neither is Barack Obama. Doesn’t make him not black.

[split_p_j]

I wouldn’t say most descendants are mixed, but things are judged on white perception of the black phenotype.

So, if someone looks at me, it’s instantly, “that guy is an older black man” no question. Doing the same for Harris it would be “what are you”. She would have to say she is part black, and then that part would be Jamaican.

She would be able to say Jamaican, black descendants of chattel slavery can’t say anything like that.

It’s a huge difference.

[Jihi]

@Sage_Rat

This was my point. His statement implies an a priori assumption. You’ve not addressed the assumption and only addressed his statement. A low information voter will assume that the a priori assumption was correct.

You know what? You may have a point here.

When watching the interview I was struck by how he kept going back and forth between, “She’s black! Then she’s Indian! And now she’s black again! What is this crazy mixed up world!?” My first thought was, “well people can be both at the same time.” And no I did not address the underlying assumption. Maybe that was lazy on my part.

[Procrustus]

Aren’t there Jamaican descendants of chattle slavery?

[Dinsdale]

@split_p_j

Ok to explain further, most white people subscribe to the one-drop rule today. As in if you have a drop of African blood, you are black.

You must know quite different white people than this white person does.

I have heard white people discuss “what makes someone Black.” For example, if a child of one Black and one white parent presents as Black - why not white. Or asking if dark skinned South Asians are Black. IME, most people seem to find it safer to use the words “of color”, if the individual has not specified their self identified descriptor. Heck, I’ve even heard not-terribly enlightened folk say things like, “They are the lightest Black person I’ve ever seen.”

Certain concepts related to race can be complex and confusing. But in my 63 years I’ve never heard a person of any hue advocate for the “one drop rule.” Hell, I’m trying to think of when I ever heard it mentioned other than in a production of “Show Boat” I saw decades ago.

@Procrustus

White people say he’s black because he says he’s black. And he is.

Well, I think I’d be enlightened enough to capitalize Black!

[Dinsdale]

@Procrustus

Aren’t there Jamaican descendants of chattle slavery?

Sounds like someone ought to read up on the Caribbean’s role in the slave trade.

[Chronos]

@split_p_j

I wouldn’t say most descendants are mixed, but things are judged on white perception of the black phenotype.

I don’t know what you would say, of course, but the objective fact is that most descendants are mixed. As are a pretty high fraction of “white” folks.

[split_p_j]

You are wrong on this, and it is a white person’s perspective. I’ve been trying to let people know the descendants of American slavery do not look at things this way. This is a European point of view.

Why do you think Trump has tried to address this several times. He has failed because he is a racist but it’s a huge issue. The Black coumminity does not see things this way, white people do.

[Procrustus]

@Dinsdale

Sounds like someone ought to read up on the Caribbean’s role in the slave trade.

It was a rhetorical question.

ETA: Unless you meant split_p_j, in which case I agree with you. (and that was kind of my point)

[Maserschmidt]

@split_p_j

Ok to explain further, most white people subscribe to the one-drop rule today. As in if you have a drop of African blood, you are black.

It’s certainly not “most” in America. In 2012, at least, 24% of white Americans saw Barack Obama as black, 63% as mixed-race. (Table 6.1)

147010895.pdf

[split_p_j]

American, as in the United States. We are talking about the United States here. It’s pretty obvious chattel slavery in the U.S was different culturally than in the Caribbean.

The book I linked to gives some reasons why.

[Happy_Lendervedder]

@split_p_j

You are wrong on this, and it is a white person’s perspective. I’ve been trying to let people know the descendants of American slavery do not look at things this way. This is a European point of view.

So descendents of American slavery didn’t/don’t see Barack Obama as Black?

[kenobi_65]

@Procrustus

Aren’t there Jamaican descendants of chattle slavery?

That seems to be, in fact, the primary background of Black Jamaicans.

Afro-Jamaicans

[split_p_j]

When he was first elected there were still many elders from the civil rights era living, so they accepted him as black.

Now, 16 years later? No for the most part.

[kenobi_65]

@split_p_j

Now, 16 years later? No for the most part.

Cite for this assertion, please?

[split_p_j]

Once again, U.S. American chattel slavery, as I’ve clearly said.

[bobot]

I heard some of the conference. Aside from the above discussed race baiting from Trump, he also claimed that the “fake news” media weren’t reporting how he just “won” the Florida case. Also, that Biden was way worse, because he had “50 years” of documents.

[split_p_j]

I’ve already cited polls, but just the fact that Trump is making a play backing up what I’ve been saying is enough.

He’s being advised to do this for a reason.

[Kent_Clark]

@split_p_j

No, he was trying to say that she is not a descendant of Black American chattel slaves. That she identifies as Asian Indian until she needs black votes, then she is “black”. He is definitely being advised on issues of race within the black community.

I actually understand what he is trying to do, as I’ve tried to explain before, but he can’t pull it off because he’s Trump.

Uh-huh. Herman Cain tried the same thing against Obama in 2008 because Obama wasn’t the descendent of slaves. He couldn’t pull it off, either, and Cain was Black. If Trump is “being advised on issues of race within the Black community,” he needs new advisers.

The first thing they need to advise him on is that old white men shouldn’t get up in front of an audience of Black people and claim that so-and-so isn’t Black.