I was reading Trump’s messages about the vaccine. He says it would have been delivered by now except that Deep State decided to delay the vaccine in order to sabotage his re-election. It’s important to keep in mind it’s Trump saying this.
Trump is now in the fourth year of his presidency. If he was going to take charge of the government, he would have done it by now. So if Deep State is still around and able to attack Trump, isn’t that an acknowledgement that Trump can’t control Deep State? If Trump couldn’t stop Deep State in his first term, why should we expect anything to change in his second term? So won’t re-electing Trump mean we get another four years of what we’ve just had? Regardless of what Trump’s plans are, Deep State will stop him.
I’m hoping to hear responses from Trump supporters on this. This is your chance to defend Trump and make your case for re-electing him.
If there was an all powerful deep state, wouldn’t they have thrown the election 4 years ago? Why did the the “deep state” wait until after Trump was elected to start their deep state passive aggressive sabotage?
Trump and his ilk need an enemy, or enemies, to rail against. The more the better. Deep State makes a fine candidate for such. No, of course they can’t exactly state this reasoning out loud (although Trump does say a lot of quiet parts out loud).
ETA: Remember that Republicans have become the anti-government crowd, so Deep State is a natural enemy. Note that Republicans have a long-established history of finding enemies entrenched in the government – See, e.g., McCarthy, Joseph.
Yeah, recent conservativism (and perhaps historically as well) needs an enemy, ideally more than one. The enemy is the rallying cause again which the conservative is invited to struggle. Liberalism, immigrants, Deep State, etc. It is clearly one of the reasons why conservatism has been drifting further right into authoritarianism and fascism. If the enemy is dire, then no sacrifice is too great to stop it. Just look at the anti-liberalism rhetoric going on right now. It is being painted as a life or death struggle. Liberalism, immigrants, the Deep State have to be stopped at all costs… even democracy.
“Democracy isn’t the objective; liberty, peace, and prospefity (sic) are. We want the human condition to flourish. Rank democracy can thwart that.”
Again, I don’t want to argue the premise in this thread. For the sake of argument, I want to accept here that what Trump says is true - that Deep State is real and is working against him - and explore the implications of that.
Not a Trump supporter, but I would say that the reason given would be that the deep state is so infested within our government that even after 4 years, he has not managed to root it all out yet. The EO that strips government employees of their protections is a part of acquiring the tools to remove these actors from their positions.
But if Trump hasn’t managed to root out Deep State in the last four years, why should we assume he will be able to do in the next four years? Based on his own statements, he’s been aware of the existence of Deep State all along and that Deep State is working against him.
Not an actual Trump supporter, but here’s something they could argue:
Look at your initial assumption. The “Deep State” has managed to block a vaccine from coming out. But, the US isn’t the only country in the world - the Deep State is so powerful, it’s blocked every other country in the world from producing a vaccine in time for the election.
So now we see that the “Deep State” is actually a world-spanning international conspiracy - it’s not just a bunch of libtards in the State Department and the EPA! It’s everywhere!
Now that Trump has exposed the true scope of the Deep State, he’ll be in position to really fight it.
It’s like a mid-season episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, where they learn that the threat they thought was the Big Bad was actually just a minion of the Real Big Bad. You don’t just stop watching after that episode!
Keep in mind, this is not my argument, so I’m not going to put all that much effort into defending it.
That said, the deep state is deep. It has infested all branches of the government, and is conspiratorially protecting itself. It takes time to root out all those who are not loyal to the president. It is a system that has been decades in the making, and it will take more than a single term to remove it.
This would be my take on it, and though Trump has gained a lot of control over the government, it is a excuse how he needs and thus justified, in acquiring more control beyond constitutional limits.
However the end game of this is Trump becomes the deep state and we end up in the same mess, or actually worse. Which actually seems to be the case, if there was not a deep state, there is now. And in general people who accuse others are generally the ones who are doing that act.
Well, to depart from the point of the thread for a moment, the “Deep State” are those who are loyal to the country, and to their jobs of maintaining the workings of the government that we all take for granted, and that are not loyal personally to Trump.
Mock if you must but I believe in a Deep State, though it may not be the same one that Trump supporters believe in. I think we have a Deep State of monied interests who funnel money into presidential and congressional campaigns in return for friendly legislation. The military-industrial complex, if you like. The basic thrust is anti-consumer and anti-environment under the guise of “what’s good for business is good for the nation.” Our current system of elections does not allow for a federal legislator to ignore these influences and they won’t be overcome until a populist dedicated to flipping the power balances comes to the forefront.
I don’t disagree that that effect exists, but I don’t know that I would call it a “deep state.” The deep state, to me at least, implies government workers in a conspiracy the thwart the will of the elected leaders, and to some extent, that is a real thing and is a good thing, as the will of the elected leaders is not always the best thing for the country. It’s more the inertia of the bureaucracy of the hundreds of agencies that make up the government.
What you describe is outside influence on the government, specifically the politicians who accept these campaign contributions that I see little different than bribery in order to have legislation that is favorable to their interests, and not necessarily in the interests of the nation or the constituents of that politician. The “deep state” is actually a bit of a check against that.
Hasn’t Trump known about the Deep State since the beginning of his presidency? And if he’s re-elected, his position and powers will be the same as they are now. If President Trump couldn’t beat the Deep State in 2019 why will he be able to do it in 2021?