Yes, well, that was part of my point. Throw some serious violence into the mix, and a lot of people might come to their senses. Or at least end up dead, which is also an improvement.
He would still have to admit that the government has sufficient evidence of his guilt. Not likely from this guy
I heard at least one TV commentator say that it is not unusual for an inexperienced judge to recuse themselves from a big/complex case so that a more experienced judge can handle it. I have no idea if this is true.
It will never go back the country was over the moment Trump was elected, but it really all goes back to 9/11.
Yeah, we are “weak” because we want to work within the Law, not violate it.
Oh and the Con-man has raised $2 Million from his flock.
I don’t mean to debate 9/11, im just saying our current situation started there, with the rise of the military that can’t be questioned, the forever wars giving unstable people training and the hatred of so-called outsiders that began with Muslims but now extends far beyond that.
How we got ‘here’ is a good deal more complex than just 9/11 related events, as that doesn’t take into account some of the other drivers of our current political predicament, some of which can be traced back much further. But in any event, 9/11 and the subsequent invasion of Iraq are undoubtedly some of the ingredients making up this soup.
Trump’s indictment and hopeful conviction is only a baby step in the right direction. There are a whole lot of other systemic issues which will need to be addressed to approach anything like a healthy state of democracy in this country.
Straw man. Legal and moral opposition to trump that has nothing to do with violating the law has been utterly pathetic. It’s hard to believe that any major political party in the developed world could’ve handled the Trump era as badly as the democratic party, and our media is also massively complicit in normalizing the absurdity and evil of the Trump era. It’s hard to imagine a worse way than handling Trump than what we did. It was a complete lack of foresight, strategy, and will.
And it doesn’t matter at this point what happens to Trump. The chance to fight this is pretty much over, and Trump-like tyrants and naked power grabs against feeble opposition are going to be the norm in the future. Desantis will just take up where Trump left off.
I would bet my life savings that there will be no reckoning, no real justice. Trump will never see the inside of a jail cell, and our media, the democratic party, and our institutions will continue to offer no real fight against the path we’re on.
I don’t think that’s why Democrats are weak. They are weak (in my perception) because they are passively relying on the American people and our institutions to correct the course, rather than taking a more active role in calling out bad behavior and reinforcing the norms and values they see as properly American. They are weak because, in addition to relying on the rule of law (which is good!) they are not reminding the American people about the fact that all Americans are (theoretically) equal under the law, including a sitting president.
In other words, they are weak because they’re not actively dealing with the problem and also communicating clearly and frequently about that fact.
Republicans, on the other hand, are weak because they are afraid to take a stand against Trump and they are afraid to admit that they were wrong about him. I’d also argue that they are weak because, since Obama, their political strategy has been to cheat (by gaming the system) rather than to work positively for the clearly articulated future they envision. Presuming they have anything in mind beyond “help the wealth rise upward.”
It remains to be seen which of these weaknesses has the greatest effect on the next election.
That’s not much of a bet if you insist that whatever happens isn’t enough to satisfy you.
There has already been a reckoning, it’s happening right now. It’s just the start but he ain’t gonna skate.
Sorry for the rant, I realize it’s off-topic here.
Anyway, as for there being a reckoning now, I’ll believe it when I see it. Trump gets himself into trouble all the fucking time and never suffers any consequences, I still don’t really believe that anything is going to come of this. Like, any of the rest of us - we’re in a deep dark hole under a facility that doesn’t exist, but I would be shocked if Trump ever sees the inside of a jail cell.
We’re still treating one of the worst people who has ever lived with kid gloves even though he’s the actively campaigning frontrunner of a party that is actively trying to end democracy. Don’t act like I’m somehow being unreasonable for wanting him to get more than 3% of what he has coming to him. We both know that whatever happens he’s not going to suffer any real consequences for it, and it won’t be the strong rebuke of what he stands for that we need to have any hope of getting this train back on the rails.
You know who controls the world? No one, if you are not religious. The markets to some extent. Big corporations to a lesser extent. The world is too complicated and people generally care more about themselves than whatever tribe.
So it’s not like the media and the Democrats colluded to embiggen Trump. The mainstream media simply cared about ratings with a patina of giving too much credence to dubious shinola in an effort to feign objectivity. The Trumpista media did not even reach that low standard of objectivity.
The problem with the Democrats is that Trump is so obviously different from previous candidates almost always more interested in good governance. They assume these differences are so obvious that everyone sees them. That no serious person could possibly stomach them. The past years have shown that this is not true, that all media is taken less seriously and is not apparently the source of what many now believe. Democrats have not always changed Trump’s policies. They have not always argued vociferously for alternatives. They have arguably been distracted by things that are important but are sometimes considered less so by average Americans. And there are many reasons, not few, voters preferred Trump to Hilary.
I don’t believe democracy in the United States is in enormous peril. These things will run their course. I don’t think Trump will go to prison. But I also don’t see him winning the election. However, even now, one would be foolish to take this for granted again. (I thought he would win his first election despite disliking him, and friends of mine thought the possibility was ridiculous. I didn’t.) Biden has not even filled all of the campaign positions. That’s just dumb. Where are the politicians decrying abortion every day?
(If this is too tangential to the thread, and it is, know it is my last comment here on this matter.)
Alford plea? You beat me to it. That might actually be the best outcome, avoiding a trial the judge could mess up, and avoiding himself having to actually admit he’s guilty. Probably won’t happen, though.
Moderating:
Thanks both for recognizing you’re hijacking this topic. If you wish to continue your discussion, please carry it on elsewhere.
Trump was treated as a head of state in Miami, that whole display was disgusting and this indictment doesn’t matter and will not do any damage to Trump.
The US as we have known it is done, over. It’s just been a slow-motion train wreck for 22 years.
I don’t think that people are truly understanding that yet.
A bit further. The 2000 election. Although I’d say we can go back further and see the genesis in the 70’s where republicans purposely took a long view and engaged in culture wars.
Democrats have been singularly ineffective at pushing back.
Agreed about the Democrats, I just watched a Steve Schimdt video saying Biden needs to speak up, the silent treatment is not working.
The Jan 6 hearings a year ago did this well, actually. I do agree we need much more, though.
ISTM that the Dems do nothing to call out or challenge the GOP BS. For example, there should have been PSAs with Andrew Clyde’s “tourist” remarks playing with the photos of him cowering as background imagery.
There were tons of similar opportunities that have never been exploited by the Dems and they could and should be doing it regularly.
I’m thinking the 1994 midterms that gave the Speakership to Gingrich (although the Nixon pardon is arguably a more convincing benchmark. If only Ford had waited until Nixon’s second day in a jail cell).