Before Benitez’ rant you thought referees gave United a hard time? I doubt your mind has really changed on the matter…
An instant red would have been a joke, almost as much of a joke as not giving a yellow card. Yes, Rooney needs to get slapped down, and quick. He was fine in the second half and just shrugged off his eventual yellow card. Easy to do at that point I guess.
At least Rooney keeps his thuggery on the pitch .
Man U possibly had a fair corner disallowed (which probably would have been a goal), Ronaldo got a pathetic yellow card for being pushed over. They got a terrible offside call that would have led to a good goal chance. Belletti’s double-hack at Ronaldo might have got a straight red on another day. You wont hear Pool/City fan talk about those though; just Rooney and his terrible attitude, and they’ll probably conjure up a couple of Ronaldo dives too while they’re at it.
I’m beginning to forget the last time Posh actually played a League game…
Rooney deserved a caution for his petulant behavior when whistled for the foul. This is especially true since Lampard, IIRC, was given a yellow card 3 minutes into the match for his cynical attempt to introduce his laces to the shins of Ronaldo, which, while deserving of a warning, was not at that point something that deserved a caution.
Telling the referee to feck off multiple times, walking away from him in the process while he tries to counsel you to something approximating proper deportment should always be cautioned.
So I was watching the Man U/Chelsea game yesterday live at 8am here in sunny Southern California, and I was reminded of a question that I’d love for some fanatical English football lovers to answer for me – and after reading some of this thread, I think I’ve come to the right place. This happened a couple years back, but somehow I think you’ll recall the incident.
So Wayne Rooney stomps on Ricardo Carvalho’s family jewels in a World Cup game. Cristiano Ronaldo says to the Ref something to the effect of, “Oh my freaking God did you see that?!?” Said Ref red cards Rooney. When the new Premier League season starts up and Man U comes to town, everyone boos the hell out of Ronaldo… but, as far as I can tell, not Rooney. What am I missing?
Why blame Ronaldo for sticking up for his teammate? Why not blame Rooney for the actual crotch-stomping when Beckham was vilified for much less in '98? For that matter, why not boo Carvalho for slamming his balls into Rooney’s foot? I’d love to know the story on this one.
The arm/alleged “fuck off” was a caution yes, but the “tackle” was one too. He should’ve just been sent off.
TheBoltEater: Rooney gets away with lots of violent conduct for some reason. People seem to have a strange attitude of “aw, that’s just how he is, he can’t help it”. Apparently he hasn’t got a single straight red in England, which sums up the problems with EPL refereeing (that stamp wasn’t exactly unusual or unexpected).
Ronaldo is a gigantic wanker, but he doesn’t do anything the likes of Gerrard and Rooney don’t do, but they’re English, so Ronaldo is vilified and Stevie G is beatified.
Beckham’s sending off was a million times worse - and far more deserving of vilification and ridicule. Watch Rooney / Carvalho on youtube and you’ll see Rooney fighting for the ball with great tenacity - Carvalho is fighting for the ball with equal determination and obstructs Rooney - pissing him off so that he plants his foot on Carvalho’s bollocks.
IMHO the ref could easily have shown a yellow given that the intent wasn’t incontrovertibly clear - I’ve seen far worse stamps - and the overall 6 of one half a dozen of the other as they were tangling. But let’s not get side-tracked with that - the point is that you’ve got a young warrior fighting for the shirt who, literally, sees red. Throw in the fact that Rooney is a convincing world class player to most UK fans and no one will hold it against him in the long term.
I’ve just watched Beckham get sent off against Argentina and it’s not as bad as I remembered. Maybe change a million times worse than Rooney to a hundred times worse. Simeoni comes right through the back of him and he’s irate, but the ball is dead - it’s a free kick to England! Throwing a leg out like a petulant tart, when play has stopped, is such a pointless, empty gesture. A lot of fans resented Beckham at the time for various reasons, the more clueless of whom didn’t rate him as an international player. The incident just encapsulated their view of Beckham as an overpaid, pampered, lightweight pussy who represented all that is wrong with modern football.
It’s funny watching that colossal Danish tit send Beckham off - you can tell he’s absolutely loving it. Marching around like someone out of the territorial army - something to show the grandchildren as the highlight of his career.
I maintain to this day that Rooney did not deliberately stamp on Carvalho; his eyes were on the ball (singular), and I think he was just turning to face it. I’m not one to excuse his behaviour normally, either.
And yeah, Stevie G is a terrible diver (in both senses), and I wish he’d cut it the fuck out. It’s an embarrassment. He should take a lesson from Fernando, who may fall over a lot, but only because he’s usually off-balance; I almost never see him trying to sell something that isn’t a foul.
Refs should avoid trying to guess intent wherever possible. You stamp someone, you get sent off. Unless it’s 100% clear it was an accident perhaps. Guessing intent inevitably leads to inconsistent refereeing, which is bloody infuriating. Sucks if you stamp someone by mistake, but it’s better for the game overall.
I started watching Premier League football regularly about 8 years ago and the one thing that has always amazed me is how much the players are allowed to intimidate, surround and intimidate the ref. In Rooney’s first season with Man U there was a game where Rooney just verbally laid into the guy in a way that shocked the hell out of me…he didn’t get a card at all.
I see gangs of players constantly surround a ref and bombard him from all sides, I’ve seen John Terry try to take the card out of a refs hand…and get nothing. English refs are spineless and hurt the integrity of the game.
I also rememb er Rooney playing either for England or Man U in a Champions League game and the non-EPL ref gave him a yellow, something Rooney did not agree with. So what did he do,he right in the referees face gave him a mock applause. It wasn’t subtle, it was deliberate and he was sent off. I am sure he figured it was something he could get away with in England
OK, I can agree with pretty much all of this, but it doesn’t really answer my fundamental question, so allow me to boil it down here.
Of all the people involved in the play, why was Ronaldo the one who came out despised? His involvement in the play is entirely confined to yelling at the ref, and he isn’t even the only one doing that. But the more I think about it, maybe I’m just being obtuse. It’s probably just 'cause he’s young, vain, a diver and immensely talented – all of which make him an easy target. Sort of a modern day Maradonna.
It’s a little more than that, but there’s really nothing in American sports that can equal the club/country loyalty/rivalry of football (unless you’re a fan of ice hockey, which comes close to the idea, but even still not that much).
Remember when Jordan was the top of his game and everyone knew it but no one really cared because, like, y’know, he was the best?
Can you imagine what it would have been like had Favre gone to the Vikings after GB and then proceeded to throw the winning TD pass at the Dome, and how football fans would have reacted to Favre’s traitorous actions?
Ronaldo’s a phenomenal player, there’s no doubt about that. The problem is that he ain’t no Jordan.
I’m really struggling here to try to draw some familiar American analogies and the only thing I can really come up with is that some people are good ‘n’ humble and some are good ‘n’ assholes. There’s no logic to who’s in what category; you just know.
At the same time, I am a consumer of the English-speaking media. I am quite certain that if I spoke Manc or Portugese CR would be the second coming of Christ.
Can you imagine what it would be like if any of our many and various all-star games actually MEANT something? If Fresno State’s shortstop played on the same team as TB’s 1st baseman and Philly’s centerfielder?
I would assume that CR speaks Portugese, since umm, he is Portugese…
I think that many of the English born EPL superstars, eg… Lampard, Becks, Stevie g, Rooney, Terry get the best and worst from the refs. They are given the benefit of the doubt in many cases, but there are also refs who get a power trip off of lighting them up.
I don’t think it is necessarily the skill of the player as much as the crest on the shirt that determines how the referees treat them. United, Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal players can do no wrong in the eyes of the men in black (or green, or yellow, or whatever it is). A player like Gareth Barry gets none of the tolerance dished out to Lampard or Gerrard.
It’s reported on BBC Ceefax and also in several UK newspapers than Man City have made an offer to AC Milan approaching £100M for the services of their Brazilian player, Kaka.
In addition they have also indicated they are prepared to pay the player wages of £ ½M per week. HALF A MILLION POUNDS PER WEEK !!
Now I’m as dedicated a City fan as you’re ever likely to meet but these sums of money are ridiculous.
No player is worth that, it’s utter madness and it’s obscene.
Furthermore:
Alan Shearer has said “What happens to City if in 2, 3 or 5 years time the new owners tire of their new toy, become bored with it all”
Don’t worry though, there’s not a snowball’s chance in hell he’ll move. Why would one of the best players on the planet commit the prime of his playing career to a project side who are unlikely to get him top-level football for at least the first two years? It’d be madness for any money, and I don’t get the impression Kaka is the mercenary kind.
Loath though I am to credit Alan Shearer with actually having made some sense, he does indeed have a point; if I were a Chelsea fan I’d be feeling distinctly nervous about Abramovich’s apparent ennui at the moment. All the noises about breaking even in 2010 are just that; noise. They’ll plummet without Abramovich’s backing, and I’d say it’s no better than 50/50 he’ll still be there in three years.
I agree. It doesn’t happen in rugby, not least because you’d be off the pitch quicker than you knew it, and also because your own team would tell you to STFU.
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