Unarmed Man Shot by Deputies Inside His Own Car Outside His Own Home

[ducati]

I’m sure this story will get larger and more problematic the more people hear it.

Unlike what the writer - not journalist - writes, he was not shot reaching for cigarettes.
That was sarcasm or an outright lie to get your attention.

With only the facts from this story and my own experience, I submit this: When the policeman - or anyone pointing a gun at you - says do A, and only A, and you do B, you are going to have a problem.

I’m not saying that this is a clean shoot on the part of the cops. The investigation will have to be concluded before that is known.

I will tell you this. I’ve been at gunpoint a couple of times until my ID and purpose was verified. I did exactly what I was directed to do without argument or commentary or complaint. I still have the same number of holes in me that I was born with.

Once upon a time, I was driving down the road and noticed 2 cop cars pass me, turn around and follow me. Then a third. As the road widened from 2 lanes to 7 approaching a large intersection I could see a huge roadblock from side to side. I slowed down, wondering what was going on, and realized there’s nowhere for me to go.
Six or eight more cars fanned out behind me. All together, maybe 30 or more cop cars, and more cops, all pointing guns at me. A loudspeaker directed me out of the car and onto the ground, and you can believe I did just that. I was swarmed, cuffed, and put into a police car without courtesy, but also without injury.

Turns out someone just robbed a bank and took off down that same road in another white Gran Torino and I was wearing virtually the same thing. It took about 10 minutes to sort things out, and I was free to go. This was well before my LE career, but I had no hard feelings because I understood they had a job to do, and questions to be answered. If everyone does what they’re told or they’re supposed to do, no one gets hurt.

Delaying your response to a sudden or furtive move by a suspect is what gets cops killed.

[YogSothoth]

Link?

[QuickSilver]

@ducati

Turns out someone just robbed a bank and took off down that same road in another white Gran Torino and I was wearing virtually the same thing. It took about 10 minutes to sort things out, and I was free to go.

Take away lesson being: if you don’t loose your shit you stand pretty good odds of getting away with it.

[Sparky_the_Wonder_Spirit]

What ducati is pre-emptively defending.

[bup]

If this is what you’re talking about, there’s no claim he reached for cigarettes when the police were there. He’d gone to the car to get cigarettes (and, I infer, smoke), when a neighbor called police - who showed up, ordered him out, and shot him.

[Sicks_Ate]

@ducati

With only the facts from this story and my own experience, I submit this: When the policeman - or anyone pointing a gun at you - says do A, and only A, and you do B, you are going to have a problem.

Sounds like “A” is just what he did:

Middleton said he was bent over in the car searching the interior for a loose cigarette when he heard a voice order him to, “Get your hands where I can see them.”
He said he initially thought it was a neighbor joking with him, but when he turned his head he saw deputies standing halfway down his driveway.
He said he backed out of the vehicle with his hands raised, but when he turned to face the deputies, they immediately opened fire.

[Johnny_L.A]

@ducati

A loudspeaker directed me out of the car and onto the ground

I have injuries. I can put my hands in the air, or I can get on the ground (but I can’t get on my knees). Or I can get on the ground and then put up my hands. With my injuries, I can’t get onto the ground without my hands, unless I basically fall down – which might appear like a sudden movement.

Question: Given that from what I’ve seen, police will not listen to a suspect, how do I comply without getting shot?

EDIT: What happens if a suspect is deaf? Suppose he’s not facing the cops?

.

[Snowboarder_Bo]

17 shell casings found. Presumably the deputies were less than 40 feet away, yet they didn’t kill him with 17 shots fired. They need training in more than one area of law enforcement, although frankly I don’t want either (any?) of these guys with a badge or a gun ever again.

[Sparky_the_Wonder_Spirit]

@Johnny_L.A

Question: Given that from what I’ve seen, police will not listen to a suspect, how do I comply without getting shot?

Don’t be black.

[Duckster]

@ducati

Once upon a time, I was driving down the road and noticed 2 cop cars pass me, turn around and follow me. Then a third. As the road widened from 2 lanes to 7 approaching a large intersection I could see a huge roadblock from side to side. I slowed down, wondering what was going on, and realized there’s nowhere for me to go.
Six or eight more cars fanned out behind me. All together, maybe 30 or more cop cars, and more cops, all pointing guns at me. A loudspeaker directed me out of the car and onto the ground, and you can believe I did just that. I was swarmed, cuffed, and put into a police car without courtesy, but also without injury.

Sounds like your town is ripe for exploitation:
[ol]
[li]Create a fake event that pulls as many cops as possible to one location.[/li][li]Use the above as a feint while the real crime is committed elsewhere.[/li][li]Criminals get away with minimal to no police involvement.[/li][/ol]
The classic would be a bank robbery occurring at one end of town while all law enforcement is at the other end of town during a presidential visit.

[Kaio]

Clicked on article. First thing I saw: “Oh, the victim was black.”

Second thing: “Florida.”

Yep. Just like that, I knew what was coming next. Sigh.

[Death_of_Rats]

@Duckster

Sounds like your town is ripe for exploitation:[ol]
[li]Create a fake event that pulls as many cops as possible to one location.[/li][li]Use the above as a feint while the real crime is committed elsewhere.[/li][li]Criminals get away with minimal to no police involvement.[/li][/ol]

The classic would be a bank robbery occurring at one end of town while all law enforcement is at the other end of town during a presidential visit.

If you call in a series of bomb threats you can occupy the entire town, including NYC’s best cop and a guy who really hates airborn serpents, while you empty out the Federal Reserve with a bunch of dump trucks.

At least that is what I learned from the documentary, Die Hard: With a Vengeance

[VinylTurnip]

@Snowboarder_Bo

17 shell casings found. Presumably the deputies were less than 40 feet away, yet they didn’t kill him with 17 shots fired. They need training in more than one area of law enforcement, although frankly I don’t want either (any?) of these guys with a badge or a gun ever again.

Maybe they fired 17 warning shots.

[Ethilrist]

@Sicks_Ate

Sounds like “A” is just what he did:

Middleton said he was bent over in the car searching the interior for a loose cigarette when he heard a voice order him to, “Get your hands where I can see them.”
He said he initially thought it was a neighbor joking with him, but when he turned his head he saw deputies standing halfway down his driveway.
He said he backed out of the vehicle with his hands raised, but when he turned to face the deputies, they immediately opened fire.

Well, it’s like “Simon Says.” Unless they say “back away from the car,” you don’t back away from the car. Unless they say “turn around,” you don’t turn around.

[HoneyBadgerDC]

A deputy should not put himself in a position where he has no time to evaluate a response without opening fire because he is in doubt. He should hide behind his door and instruct the suspect to come out with hands up or whatever it is they do but the safety of both the officer and suspect should not be compromised by setting up a dangerous situation.

[desertmonk]

@HoneyBadgerDC

A deputy should not put himself in a position where he has no time to evaluate a response without opening fire because he is in doubt. He should hide behind his door and instruct the suspect to come out with hands up or whatever it is they do but the safety of both the officer and suspect should not be compromised by setting up a dangerous situation.

Bullets go right through car doors in real life; they are not bullet proof shields.
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/buickot3.htm

[Fact_of_the_Matter]

@Johnny_L.A

I have injuries. I can put my hands in the air, or I can get on the ground (but I can’t get on my knees). Or I can get on the ground and then put up my hands. With my injuries, I can’t get onto the ground without my hands, unless I basically fall down – which might appear like a sudden movement.

Question: Given that from what I’ve seen, police will not listen to a suspect, how do I comply without getting shot?

EDIT: What happens if a suspect is deaf? Suppose he’s not facing the cops?

.

Something like this might happen if deaf and not following police verbal instructions. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcxqyp2wOzE&feature=player_embedded

Personally, I think the discussion on these single instances of police being overzealous or outright out of line does a disservice to police in general. It has become “yellow journalism”, propaganda and stereotyping at its worst.

The overwhelming majority of interactions with the police do not end up like this and while it is terrible and a tragedy when it happens it is still thankfully a fairly rare occurrence.

[monstro]

The OP sucks for making shit up so he can blame the victim. There is no absolutely indication the guy did anything wrong. There are 17 pieces of evidence that someone else fucked up royally, though.

I’m surprised the police haven’t yet mentioned his middle school detention record. I guess this is progress.

[ducati]

@bup

If this is what you’re talking about, there’s no claim he reached for cigarettes when the police were there.

Sorry. This is where I saw it…
http://gawker.com/unarmed-man-shot-by-deputies-inside-his-own-car-outside-949237195

And the first paragraph is…
Deputies in Florida’s Escambia County have some explaining to do after they allegedly shot an unarmed man for grabbing a box of cigarettes out of his own car outside his own house.
Oh, wait. That’s the same link. Did you somehow miss the first sentence of the article you linked to? It’s intentionally wrong and intentionally misleading. This is how this kind of incident gets out of hand. Someone lies or distorts the facts, idiots grab it and hold it as gospel, and won’t listen to anything else.

My wish with any case like this is that the investigation be allowed to be completed before everyone jumps to conclusions.

[Ethilrist]

Well, if we waited for the investigation, jumping wouldn’t be necessary. A simple step would suffice.