Have you decided what you’re going to do yet?
Oh yes. The relationship cannot continue with this level of tension and walking on eggshells, wondering every moment if I am wonderful or ‘misbehaving’ in some way. It’s a sad goodbye because he’s otherwise a terrific person, but it is goodbye nonetheless.
Good for you. Stick with that plan. Controlling people may change, but usually only after much pain and heartbreak. And the majority of them don’t seem to be able to change even after that.
:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
flabbergasted
Um… I think that would only be an appropriate comment if he were asking you not to, say, become a stripper.
That comment worries me for a few reasons. First, I’d hope that your sex life with him consists of more than you just spreading your legs at his request - this makes it sound like that’s the central point of it, rather than the whole sexual pleasure bit. Second, it looks like he’s more concerned with the action itself rather than the content of it - with what you are physically doing, not with what you want or what you’re thinking. And that’s just bad for a whole lot of reasons.
I think you’ve made the right decision, especially with that mulch thing going on as well. As Dan Savage says, DTMF!
I was going to give him benefit of the doubt on the masssage therapist thing, roll my eyes at the ob/gyn thing and think that maybe he was just stupid about female health (because a lot of guys are), but the mulch thing is clearly well into the scary psycho stage.
I agree with the majority here, the guy is being completely irrational.
I was trying to put myself in his shoes, and the only way I could be jealous of either of those activities (not to even touch on the mulch issue…) would be if I were ignorant of the proceedings.
If I thought that a visit the GYN consisted of an hour of someone staring at my crotch, then I could understand a little bit of jealousy; however, in order for me to believe this I would have to hit myself in the head with a hammer a few times in order to know the brains out of my head.
The massues (sp?) thing is a little different; in general, I don’t think it’s anything to get jealous over. However, again I’m donning my stupid cap, I could see a reason to be jealous-but it involves a lot of ‘if’s’. Suppose you are the guy, and you’ve been to several massage parlours-but all of these parlours you’ve been to are of ill repute, where the attendants rub your naughty bits.
If this was what you thought these parlour’s were for, then I could see being very jealous. Again though, in order to have such a generalized view: head + hammer…
Um…yeah…Looks like I got to the hammer-smashing a little earlier then usual: That should be “in order to **knock[/n]”.
Maybe if I beat my head on the other side I’ll be able to knock my brains back into my skull… 
Like I said, just because his fears might have some basis, does not necessarily make him not crazy. 
Glad you found about this now, though… too many times, people ignore pretty obvious warning signs and it only gets harder to get out as time goes on.
Good luck with it!
What you propose doesn’t seem a compromise to me, since her boyfriend’s demands appear unreasonnable to me (and hinting at the possibility of future issues, by the way). There’s no requirment to compromise about everything. For instance if her boyfriend asked her to do all the housework, would you advise to compromise by accepting to do everything except, say, cleaning the toilets?
I must say I’m very warry about jealousy. And being jealous of a gynecologist should ring al sorts of alarm bells, IMO.
The point was to see if he would compromise, if he would realize he was being unreasonable. Sometimes the best way to get through to people is by being subtle, rather than being drastic and dramatic all the time. I agree, not everything should be compromised, but when you give a little, the other is likely to give a little. If he still wasn’t willing to budge after she met him half way, that was the red flag. It wasn’t my life and I wouldn’t suggest that she dump him strictly because of that as you appear to think she should have done. If he seemed great on all other accounts, she wouldn’t take that kind of advice anyway. Plus if you run away from everyone at the first sign of anything out of the ordinary, there would be no one left. He deserved to be felt out a little bit more - which she did and did confirm that her suspicions were right.
But the point is moot because this was originally discussed weeks ago and she posted today to say his controlling behavior is getting worse so she gave him the boot. Good for her.
I’ve been back and forth so many times thinking about this, because I like to give people as much slack as I need (and that’s a lot!!), and he and I have discussed this ad nauseum, and he insists that he’s not controlling – just hoping to find someone who realizes how unstoppable a couple can be if they are totally connected. And he’s a really neat person, very generous in many ways, smart, creative, handsome, etc. etc.
So when’s he raised questions such as 'doesn’t your toe ring give men too much to think about?" and “does hiring your student’s landscaping company to do some work send the wrong message?”, and “do men in your yoga class try to look down your shirt?” and “aren’t those sandals too sexy to wear without me around?” and “does your friend Stacy get to see you TWICE a week now?” and “why didn’t you give me a kiss instead of just a hug in front of your daughter?” and “aren’t you concerned that while you’re pulling weeds in your front yard that someone might drive by and see your nipple when you bend over?” – I’ve tried to see his point of view. And I keep failing. I guess the mulch was the last straw (forgive the pun).
Please, don’t tell me that I should be the one knocking myself on the head with a hammer – I’ve already thought of that, and I’ve already done it metaphorically anyway.
So I’m off to get a massage because I ache from all the mulch spreading. I’m going to schedule with – can you guess? – whoever is available this afternoon.
Do be aware that there are people who like jealousy… that if their SO isn’t jelous that they don’t feel loved enough. Maybe he had some wierdo chick like this before.
Overall I agree that once you give in… it might never stop. Eventually he’ll want you at home hidden away from all male attention. Cut the crap now.
Aw, that’s crap. If you give in to part of someone’s ridiculous, unreasonable demands, how are they going to figure out they’re being ridiculous and unreasonable? I mean, if it was that unreasonable, you wouldn’t have done any of it, right? Clearly, there’s nothing at all out of line about such demands, and you’re just being a unreasonable jerk to refuse them. Attempting to compromise with people who are that far out of touch with reality only validates their complaints and leads to further shit.
And yes, someone who thinks a male gyno gets his jollies doing pap smears is out of touch with reality. It’s a job, no more sexually stimulating than any other. These guys just want to take care of their patients, get their work done, and go home, just like everyone else. (Hopefully, when their wives meet them at the door in a negligee, they don’t think “Oh god, not another one.” Based on Dr.J’s ob/gyn rotations, though, I wouldn’t be too optimistic on that count.) Same for massage therapists. They’re professionals, and they just want to do their jobs and go home like the rest of us. There is no blurring of the line between sexual contact–there’s massage therapy, and there’s erotic massage, and never the twain shall meet.
It would be like me insisting that Dr.J never go to a female hairstylist, because she might be getting a thrill out of touching his head and neck and hair. It’s attempting to sexualize something that’s inherently non-sexual, and it shouldn’t be accomodated or encouraged.
That’s a good reasonning. But it didn’t appear clear to me in your post, since you seemed to just advise her to compromise on this particular issue, not to use the issue as a sort of “test”
But since she asked…I gave my point of view.
That’s a good point (the part about not running away from everyone at the first sign). But when we read such a post the only thing we see is the particular behavior described, and it’s difficult to take into account the possible redeeming qualities.
Besides, as I wrote, I particularily dislike jealousy. So, when it reaches an extreme (well… I know it could be worst, but this is pretty extreme to me) level, that’s an absolute no-no for me.
I didn’t notice that.
Arghh!!! I wrote previously that his demands would ring all sorts of alarm bells, but reading this, it’s no more an alarm bell, it’s DEFCON 1.
There’s no point in trying to understand such points of view (I mean when directly involved with the individual…from a theorical point of view, it’s most probably an interesting topic).
Dear Jannie, to me , it sounds like you are unequally yoked(or would it be yolked?)
this man sounds very nice
and emminently loveable
yet he seems rather a boy
and wishes to ownership you
you don’t sound like chattel
and you’re clearly not a typical ‘yes dear’
and you sound actually like you are one highly evolved soul.
he’s quite fortunate, it seems to me
that you are not saying
dude, try it you might like it
(living in his own skin, that is, rather than trying to roll up your rug)
and your classic juxtaposition of mulch and yoga postures( you seem the sort would exceed her teachers on live teevee)
plus it is clear you are like a spiritually(not at all religious) soul
so your body, fine as it may be, ain’t even no tent to be rolled from under you.
For your lover:
Friend, this woman sounds extra-hyper fine
why not embrace her as she is?
get out of your head trip.
put on some jethro tull
or even leppard
or leotards, try it you might like it
and give her a kiss
on the cheek
and say
Christ on a stick, i was an ass, dear.
and proceed with life
p.s. forget the alamo
I’ve gotta jump in here because there’ve been a lot of knee-jerk responses in this thread that could potentially lead your average joe with some perfectly natural feelings to feel like he’s some kind of freak and that he should never discuss them with anybody for fear of being seen as a control-freak, making an uncomfortable situation even worse.
Before I go into it, just so I’m clear, here’s my take on jannie’s situation: her first post just said that her boyfriend expressed some discomfort about certain situations. Her third post then follows with:
Up through this point, I felt that respondants were being too quick to judge, and didn’t have the relevant information to hand down the control-freak judgements they were so freely heaping upon him. Then, of course, we get to the mulch pile story, the talk of “spreading your legs for another man” in regards to the OB/GYN, and finally, this fantastic gem:
Clearly, as this story turns out, this guy is a looney-tooney control freak, and I hope the door gave him a good whack in the ass on his way out.
However, I would like to stand up and say that feelings of jealousy are just plain human nature. Everybody gets them at some time or another. They’re probably completely baseless more than 95% of the time, but that doesn’t mean they just go away. And since they are your feelings and sharing your feelings is one of the cornerstones of a relationship, you absolutely should feel free to discuss your feelings of jealousy with your SO, provided you do so with the proper frame of mind. By “proper frame of my mind”, I of course mean that the intention of the conversation isn’t to control your SO’s behavior to cater to your insecurities unfairly.
For examples, we’ll go back two relationships ago, to my last “very serious” relationship. My very attractive and personable girlfriend had some male friends who made it pretty obvious that they would love the opportunity to be more than just friends. She was a completely trustworthy and faithful person in that regard, which meant that any feelings of jealousy were completely illogical and pointless. That doesn’t mean I didn’t have those feelings, though, and I communicated those to my girlfriend: “I know my feelings of jealousy are my problem and I don’t expect you to give up your friends or fun to cater to them, but So-and-so does make me uncomfortable, for reason x, y, and z, and I just wanted you to know. You shouldn’t avoid hanging out with him or doing anything that you would otherwise do around him. If we are inviting friends over for a situation where that person would otherwise be welcome to come, he’s still welcome to come. Just be aware that if you’re getting ready to go hang out with him I may be battling against my feelings of jealousy, and if I occassionally let some grumpiness bubble out when I haven’t yet mastered my insecurities, please be forgiving. And if you could remember to give me a kiss on your way out the door when he’s picking you up, even if you’re running late, that would be a bonus too.”
Regarding the OB/GYN thing, that same girlfriend asked me to come along for an exam of hers, as she wasn’t very comfortable with the process herself. The doc was a very nice fellow, and completely professional throughout the process, and gave me no reason to be jealous. But hey, human nature is human nature, and I admit I was a bit ooged out with another man getting that intimate with my SO’s naughty bits, rational or not. I didn’t see any reason to bring that up with my girlfriend, but she asked me about it, and I admitted I was uncomfortable. I in no way implied that she should change docs or not schedule appointments, or that I would object to going again if that made her more comfortable with the whole process. We just discussed feelings, not what she could do to cater to my insecurities.
If anybody out there has a problem with those kind of discussions, then you’re wound way too tight. All people have flaws. Jealousy is one of them. When you are in a relationship, you deal with and work through each others’ flaws (provided they’re not excessive flaws), and that’s how people get along.
Anybody got any disagreements with valid reasons why talking about your insecurities with your SO is wrong (provied you aren’t being a control-freak about it, like jannie’s ex)?
Thank you, Crazy Monkey, for your most recent post; I have struggled with my own feelings of jealousy over the years, and they have certainly been irrational at times. I’m a believer that the things that bother us in others are probably rooted in our own psyches, and I’ve tried hard to be understanding, as I have asked others to be with me, and probably will again. I don’t like my own feelings of insecurity and the ensuing jealousy, but I have to own up to having them. It’s one of the reasons that I thought this fellow and I might be good for each other … that there might be empathy and mutual understanding that would be a foundation for personal growth and trust. My reason for titling the thread ‘understanding jealousy’ was genuine.
His remarks and behaviors are beyond my understanding, as my feelings are beyond his. If there’s good news it’s that I’ve grown in my understanding of the destructiveness of such deep insecurity, as well as the pointlessness of it.
Thank you all for the varied perspectives you’ve offered; this was my first post, and I’ve found it a fine forum for exploring ideas, even ones as personal as this.
Hold on a minute.
aside from the ob/gyn comment (yuck!), how much of your comments are truely objective.
What if she just started wearing a toe-ring…for her doctor-gardener-student-massage therapist. What if she’s suddenly spreading mulch with her new landscaper when she never was interested before?
Except for the comment about “spreading your legs for another man”, the rest seems like only one side to an argument. What if she’s naturally flirtatious etc?
Some have suggested that her dating habits might be flawed, so whynot go one step further and conclude there there is insufficient data to make a judgement?
Isn’t this giving advice on too little information?
I hear you. What if I said that my toe ring was a gift from my daughter two years ago (she was 11), and I’ve been wearing it ever since (I’m 49)? My favorite massage therapist is actually a woman, but she’s not always available when I need her. My student landscaper came and did the work, got paid, and left. I believe in mulch as much as I believe in god, and I look particularly attractive taking the garbage out to the compost heap. I have been involved with controlling men, and I think I’m getting better at seeing the signs. I have a sense of humor (although it’s pretty well hidden in this thread), and I do like to flirt – but never, never when it might hurt someone, male or female, or give the wrong impression to the wrong person. I’m pretty independent, and take what’s been written here as perspective and well-intentioned feedback for which I’m appreciative. It’s true that the gentleman in question is not part of this thread, and so this is indeed one-sided. I’ve tried to be as accurate as possible, because of course I can’t be objective. Who’s objective when they’re falling for someone?