You saved me all that typing. I would not live with someone who was this irresponsible with firearms ownership.
Well, it’s always nice to get closure with these things, right?
First, this is the first time I’ve ever asked an Internet forum for advice, and now I feel a bit silly, because all of your opinions have been very useful. So, thank you!
Second, I have to say that I have a lot more empathy for these sorts of questions because I’m seeing firsthand how easy it is to lose perspective. When I posted, I thought I was being too harsh with option 2, which I see now is ridiculous. I’m glad you all provided some objective input.
Tonight, when we have the talk, it’s either:
- the guns stay locked for the entire time I stay there (about four months), and I keep the keys
- the guns go
- I go (and darn it I just moved in on February 7! But sometimes, you’ve gotta suck it up.)
If the moderators are amenable to keeping the thread open, please continue to discuss. I will post back with the result of the talk.
How the Bill of Rights plays with private landlords and tenants may be quirky, to say the least.
Some years ago, there was a big brouhaha in San Francisco, in which the management of a humongous apartment complex forbid tenants from displaying posters in their windows. So far, so obnoxious, but apparently that’s rather common. But then, during an election season, some tenants began putting campaign posters in their windows, and the management got on their case about that.
This blew up into a major confrontation: Landlord’s property rights, vs tenants First Amendment rights. It became a major legal case, and in the end the tenants won on First Amendment grounds.
So landlords must respect tenants’ First Amendment rights, even on the landlord’s private property.
Does this imply that landlords must also respect tenants’ Second Amendment rights, even on the landlord’s private property?
(ETA: Setting aside the possibility that there may be legal local restrictions on gun ownership or possession. I imagine, wherever such restrictions are legal, then a clause in the lease enforcing same is also legal.)
No, it doesn’t necessarily imply that. People have been able to assert First Amendment rights in all kinds of places, even on private property that merely had the appearance of a public forum. Certain other rights, like privacy have also been asserted against landlords. But that doesn’t mean that all the rights in the bill of rights apply to the situation.
How? You didn’t change anything. None of the advice seemed to be tailored to your situation, and a significant number of posts were used to insult you for taking the proactive approach of negotiation instead of just running away. None of the posts suggested the choice you actually made.
I’m not being snarky. I really don’t get how the thread helped you. In fact, I feel this way in the majority of advice threads, and I assumed most of the OP’s agreed. But apparently you don’t.
What value did you actually get out of this thread?
The reason I and others did not favor “negotiation” in this scenario is that (per the OP’s description) you have someone who when drunk and agitated enough goes for their guns to (apparently) try and kill someone … repeatedly. This is not IMO a situation that needs counseling, negotiation or intervention by a “roommate”. He needs to GTF out of Dodge.
The core of all this is that you have someone you are sharing domestic space with, who when drunk and upset their impulse is get their gun and try and kill the person they are upset with. This dangerous person is not the OPs brother, boyfriend, SO or relative he is simply his roommate. In essence you are rooming with someone who is at some point going to get drunk, potentially get upset, and then try kill someone. You are living with a human bomb. Betting that you are smart and savvy enough to manage this situation safely over an extended period of time is a foolish bet.
Move out.
And by the way -
Assuming that the room-mate was serious in his wishes, a two or three month period to “prove” he is responsible is meaningless.
Somebody that genuinely wants to use his gun to kill someone when drunk, needs more than just 10 or 12 weeks to prove he can be trusted - if ever, with firearms.
Well, BigT, from you I learned that people don’t read carefully (that is snark). For instance:
Compare my new option 1 to my old option 1; it’s stricter. Instead of giving him his guns and ammo back over the course of a few months, I would make them stay locked the whole time.
Okay, sorry for being petty. What did I get out of the thread? Haven’t you ever had to make a decision and consulted a few friends or family members? How many would you talk to? 5? 6? Here I was able to leverage the outside perspectives of over 60 people in one day. For free! BigT, that’s a marvel.
And my poll read: Am I being unreasonable? I see that a lot of people think that I’m not. That’s useful reassurance–in fact, what I was asking for. Advice. Opinions. From outside sources.
I thought I explained it in my previous post, but let me be more explicit: it is ten times easier to recognize the “right,” or, at least, most suitable course of action for others than it is for ourselves. Because our perspectives on ourselves are warped, and the important context gets lost.
For instance, with Matt, there was this incident a few nights ago, but all of these other factors that I’m thinking about, like the fact that a) I just moved, and the thought of moving again would be a huge time and financial inconvenience, b) we’re good friends, so I’m inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt, c) it’s just been those three times, which means all of the other days we’ve lived together–for two years–have gone basically without incident, etc. It gets hazy.
However, this thread put the context back in sharp focus: He posed a serious threat that night, and some sort of drastic action has to be taken. Without fail. And I have to be prepared to shell out about $2,000 to make it happen. (The cost of breaking the lease, a deposit on a new place, first month’s rent on the new place, a UHaul to move, etc.) $2,000 that would probably drain me to the point that I would have to move back in with my parents. Because yes, that’s what option 3 means, so I needed to make sure that I wasn’t being precipitate.
Resolution:
Well, I’ll be. We had a talk. I told him the three options and then showed him the poll. I don’t know what I was expecting, but he was really contrite. He said he didn’t blame me if I wanted to move out, and that he felt really ashamed. He said he was leaning towards option 3, not because he wanted his guns, but because he had f-- up so badly when I’d been nothing but nice. I reminded him that I graduate in May and would only be there until June, max; why not option 2?
So we shook on option 2. The guns, the ammunition–it’s all going to his father, and Matt said I could watch him hand them over and call Mr. M anytime to make sure he still had them. Matt said I could continue holding on to the rifle, the key to the Ruger lock, and the ammunition, and that they would go tomorrow morning. He also said that he had called his brother and asked him to move out by the end of the week. (wtf?) Finally, he said he felt he had anger issues, that he needed to start some counseling, and that he was going to lay off the alcohol for a few months. (wtdoublef?)
Dang. That’s pretty much the best outcome I could have hoped for. Case closed. Thanks, guys.
You’re overreacting.
Obviously, your roomate only play with guns when drunk, and can be talked out of killing people with them with relative ease.
Of course he might get pissed at you someday and threaten to kill you, but you shouldn’t worry that much. From your previous experience, he probably won’t really mean it. So the worst that could happen is an accidental discharge because he’s drunk, which is unlikely to kill you. Besides, even if he’s somewhat serious about it, if a friend is present, he’ll probably be able to convince him otherwise…in fact, you might be able to convince him yourself not to kill you. And in the worst case scenario, don’t forget he will be drunk. You have a significant chance to be able to overpower him or at least to survive a poorly aimed shot.
If I were you, I would just give him back his toys (obviously) and have a nice talk with him. Don’t be too assertive since it could make him stubborn about the issue. Try to negociate some compromise. For instance, that he won’t play with guns when drunk, or at least not with loaded guns. He might or might not remember/care next time he’s drunk, but then again he might. Also, try to make him understand that killing people can be serious business and often has bad consequences for the murderer. He might not realize it.
If this fail, however, I think you should get over yourself and learn to be a little bit more accomodating. First he’s your friend, and an otherwise pleasant roomate, so do you really want to mess up this relationship over a minor issue? Second, contrarily to you, he a long-term gun owner and has been around guns all his life. He obviously knows much more than you about guns and gun safety. He’s certainly way more capable than you to determine what behaviour is appropriate in what circumstances wrt guns. You should learn to trust him on issues he’s knowledgeable about.
Finally, next time he wants to kill his brother, MYOB. You’re not his SO, parent or somesuch, just his roomate. This is no concern of yours. Besides, as all dopers will tell you, involving yourself in other people’s family disputes always ends badly. At the very least, one or the other will end up resenting you. Which you don’t want, especially since they’re from a family with a tradition of owning and using guns (and apparently settling their disputes with them, especially when drunk).
Hope this helps. 
Glad things worked out. I just want to slip in one last suggestion.
(bolding mine.) I don’t think your roommate needs to jump straight to the dramatic confession if he gives is guns to his dad. He could just say “my lease doesn’t allow guns on the property”, which could be true, and if it’s false it’s a pretty trivial white lie. Or he could say “my roommate doesn’t want guns around” which is entirely true, and the worst case scenario is that his dad thinks your some kind of crazy gun-fearin’ librul.
Now if your roommate is really serious about addressing his anger (and drinking?) problems, explaining things to his dad could be a good first step towards getting help.
Very glad to hear that it worked out and thanks for following up with the outcome. 
And as stated before, welcome to the forum.
No. Break the lease. You’re done.
I don’t own any guns but would have no problem with someone else owning them responsibly. I’m an ardent 2nd amendment believer.
Matt is not responsible. I personally would not consider a 2nd offense on that level. “Drunk with a gun” is not living with me under the same roof. It’s not about forgiveness. It’s poor judgement under the influence of alcohol.
Wish him well and part ways.
I’m always surprised at the number of people on this message board who jump immediately to “ZOMG! Get out now, uproot your life, and call the police on him!”. Clearly the fact you are dicussing options means your financial or social situation is such that you want to maintain your roomate relationship with Matt despite this close call, and I’ve certainly been in similar bad judgement situations with roommates myself, although nothing that severe.
My own apporach would be 1) First discuss the idea of him selling the guns to see if he is amenable to that. Gun rights aside, I would hope a reasonable gun owner would come to their senses, realized they could have killed someone, and thank you profusely for stiopping them while realizing that they are not responsible enough to own a weapon. 2) Assuming (1) doesn’t work, I would let him suggest a solution that guarantees that a gun will never come out again when alcohol is present and what safeguard you have that he would never come home drunk and have access to it. If it means offsite storage with a trusted third party you approve of, then that might be good enough. 3) If both of those fail, you can suggest a third option where you maintain control of the keys to the gun safe or storage of the guns, assuming you want that kind of responsibility (I wouldn’t). That is my least preferred option, as he could ask for the guns while sober, then get drunk and do whatever damage he is going to do.
If Matt feels the same way you do about wanting to maintain the roommate relationship, and understands that doing none of the above might result in you moving out because of your legitimate safety concerns, then perhaps the ‘ZOMG!’ people are right and you should move out - on a reasonable timetable that works for your financial situation, but only as a last resort. I would hope it wouldn’t come to that, and personally, I would not call the police, but that’s just me and perhaps I’m a bit more tolerant of such issues.
Perhaps I missed a bit in the scenario, but the gist I got from the OP’s story is that you have someone here, who when he gets drunk and angry, is ready and willing to kill someone. And is persistent at it. Not in metaphorical sense, but in a real world, shoot you dead homicidal sense. That’s his go to when intoxicated and upset. Killing people.
Now… I’m sure you’ve talked this out with him and he’s really, really sorry, and you think you’ve managed and controlled it by taking his guns off premises. So next time this (based on your description of his behavior) young, immature, irresponsible adult child-man decides he’s bored and doesn’t need to be helicoptered anymore, and and wants to get his drink on and gets emotional and infuriated (as drunks are often wont to do) what then? Will you take all the knives and scissors and hammers and baseball bats out of the house?
You seem to think the problem is the guns. I think the real problem is that you have someone who likes to drink and when drunk and upset is willing to murder people. It is trivial to find other means to accomplish that goal.
Good luck with your “project”.
You are not his parent. You cannot take his toys unless he agrees to play nice.
Leave him and his guns. Warn his brother.
Do not leave a forwarding addresses.
What astro and magiver said. You need to not live with a violent drunk anymore. Inform your LL of what’s going on, and why the lease needs to be changed, and see what the LL is willing to do. The gun is really mostly irrelevant; the seriously threatening to kill is very relevant.
See if the ll will cut you some slack on the rent while you solicit a new roommate. Or just leave, but staying is the worst of all options, IMHO.
**For anyone after me, please read posts 5, 12, 16, 34, 40, 62, 69, and especially 70 before commenting! They supply important details that might alter your advice. **
I read them already. Doesn’t change anything. He’s still a violent drunk, and you aren’t obligated to put yourself at risk by living with him. His anger issues, while regretable, are not your problem.
Good luck, and welcome to the SDMB.