And of course no-one should bring a gun into a home with telling the other residents; to pretend otherwise is ridiculous.
I’ll be ridiculous: assuming it’s legal to own the firearm in question and assuming the firearm is securely stored, why is it anymore business of yours that a gun is brought into the home s/he lives in, than him/her bringing in a new e.g. 8 inch chef’s knife? Both are inanimate tools that can cause harm in untrained hands, but both are perfectly safe assuming trained use and secure storage.
Not really. It’s obvious that you think taking his guns away and his being really, really sorry and promising to not get drunk and be a good boy from now on is a workable solution.
Let me refresh your memory per what you told us.
If I was involved in that nonsense I would not care if he swore on stack of Bibles to turn from demon run and sin no more. I’m out or he’s out. When he’s drunk and angry he’s homicidal. I’m sure everything will go swimmingly until he decides he’s tired of being a good boy and wants to get pasted again then the homicidal maniac will come out to play. You think you’re going to ride this tiger? Again, good luck with that.
Agreed.
Or a container of gasoline.
Or a baseball bat.
Or an axe,hatchet,mattock,etc.
Or hell…why not go online and have someone ship him a razor-sharp sword of any style ever manufactured by man? He can get it overnight (assuming that they don’t make it to order) and began to hack and hew as soon as UPS/FedEx drops it off on his doorstep.
A person who is intent upon injuring or killing another really doesn’t need to have a firearm. WHile that may make it “easier” for some, the intent to cause is, as always, disconnected from the implement available to do so.
Prisons are replete with people who caused a great deal of mayhem without ever even touching a firearm.
Agree again (you’re on a roll). I wouldn’t put up with that behavior from my fiancée or, when I was married, my wife. No matter what they said later. I’ve no idea why you’ll put up with it from a roommate. The most dangerous situation most people ever find themselves in is living with a violent person with poor impulse control and a willingness to get intoxicated. You are choosing to do just that. It’s your funeral.
Well, now that this discussion has become academic (since the guns left today), I’ll bite, and I’m surprised no one has mentioned this so far: a gun is substantially different because of its range. I had to take Matt’s guns that night (instead of shutting the door and minding my own business, as Clairobscur recommends) because if your roommate has a butcher’s knife–well, good luck getting through my door. If he’s got a gun, all it takes is one negligent discharge, and I’m dead.
That’s why comparisons to knives, bleach, etc. don’t resonate.
This. But in a humbling sense, because before this incident, I’m pretty sure I would have counseled someone else to just pick up and leave. But now, if people say, “It’s complicated,” I think I might understand. I hope one day I’m financially in a place where I can just pick up and go, maybe even multiple times over. A thought experiment: How easy would it be for you (fellow readers) to move out within the week or month? Really think it through.
When I moved into the first place, there were three other guys: Matt, Victor, and the landlord, Tim. (Aliases.) Victor moved out shortly thereafter, then Tim went overseas to start a business, so it was just Matt and I. Cool, suddenly lots of space in this big house. Until Tim stopped paying utilities and the mortgage. Even when it became clear that we would have to move or the place would be foreclosed on and we’d be out in the street, it took us two months to agree to live together in a new place, find a place, and coordinate the move. And this is just for two single guys who could split a UHaul. I can only imagine for a family.
Finally, although I don’t like Clairobscur’s blasé tone (dude, guns aren’t “toys;” they’re lethal weapons and need to be respected), I think he got the dynamic right: I trust Matt well enough and wasn’t really convinced that he, even drunk, would have been able to do anything to his brother unarmed. (And definitely not to me, since I’ve got about four inches and 20-25 pounds on him.) But drunk Matt with a gun means all bets are off.
Perhaps a poor analogy, but (drunk) Matt is bleach and guns are ammonia. I can rest easily with one in the house. But not both.
And I think this was a genuine wake-up call for him. I was impressed when I confirmed with his brother that Matt had, in fact, called him and said he had to GTFO. But the point is now, if he knocks on my door at 4 in the morning, I can just ignore him, secure in the knowledge that a negligent discharge won’t kill me.
OK, I’m game, what part of violent drunk did I miss? He could just as easily walk into the kitchen and grab a steak knife.
Best of luck to him but AFAIK can rent a room from his anger management therapist. Unless the op is an anger management therapist I don’t see the logic in the current situation.
I just got back from a bar where a man was arrested after shooting his girlfriend dead. Not hugely interested in hearing his regrets and promises to do better.
My reading is you are trying to be a brother or a really good friend rather than simply a roommate. Long term living together can result in a kind of relationship thats hard to define.
In a way I guess the question is what the best lesson you can teach him is. We’re talking something that could have resulted in a death or serious injury - if he’d got to his brother and the police where involved at that point, we’re talking a major crime even if he got stopped before injury occurred, and Im guessing drunk driving was in the picture as well? You’ve saved him from all that, but does he realise how serious a thing this really was?
My reading is not, and denial/minimisation with is inherently part of the problem with this kind of behaviour. It will probably be a matter of days before he’s talking himself into thinking this wasnt that big a deal, was a onetime thing, etc etc. Giving up drinking ‘for a few months’ and ‘getting some counselling’ isnt enough by a long shot and will probably fade pretty quickly, and not selling the guns is a warning as well. He doesnt really understand yet how much work he probably really needs to do.
And I think you’re going through the same thing to an extent - hoping its not as big as it really is, and needing more that you’re currently doing.
Otara
**astro **and magiver, as usual, are spot on.
I really do hope that this is the resolution, that he seeks the help he needs and finishes maturing into a person who can resolve his problems and control his drinking without making any more plans to kill people.
But part of me thinks that this resolution is what happens right before a commercial break on a show like Snapped, where we come back to find out how he didn’t live up to his promises and ended up killing people after all.
I’m very glad to hear that. I truly hope that he does get some help.
I hope that doesn’t happen, too. He really sounds like he’s on a track that ends up with someone dead and him in jail for a very long time, and it sounds like he would be extremely sorry if it ended up that way (but the other person would still be dead).
Yarster, we’re talking about a guy who gets drunk and waves guns around like they’re toys, then, after a drunken fight with his brother, goes home, gets his gun, and has to be stopped by his roommate from killing the guy. Not exactly an ideal house mate.
Seriously, a violent drunk is a violent drunk, with or without guns. Even if he doesn’t kill you, do you really want someone who’s likely to get into drunken fights at your place? (And yes, I’d want to know if someone brought a gun into my house. Not because I necessarily have any objection to guns, but I feel I have a right to know if I’m living with a weapon. Especially when you have an irresponsible tool like Matt)
I think that one sailed right over your head.
So, in a conclusion that will stun no one, I wanted to offer a belated follow-up to this thread (because in a world of rampant Internet injustice, doesn’t it feel good to say I told you so, for once? I know I like that feeling, so fair’s fair):
This m*********** lied and endangered my life–again. The details are so bizarre that I want to put them down. One wrinkle to this story that I don’t think I brought up because it wasn’t relevant is the fact that Matt is white, and I’m black. When we were at the old place, I overheard him a few times using the n-word with his WoW buddies in his room (the walls were thin), and I told him I didn’t think it was appropriate (to put it lightly), and that while it wasn’t my job to police his language, I thought I had the courtesy of not hearing it inflicted on me within earshot. This actually turned into a discussion, which was shocking to me because I thought it was open-shut. However, eventually he agreed to not say it where I could hear, and that was that.
Fast forward to December 5. He was having a get-together with his girlfriend and her friend (both black, by the way), and I was in my room (it was a Friday, but I had to work the next day). The party wasn’t the issue, of course–the fact that I work Saturdays is wacky. However, what I didn’t appreciate was being awakened to a loud exclamation by Matt that involved this word.
I got up, heated. I have very few triggers, but the n-word, to me, is a fighting word. I don’t think anyone should use it, period, but especially not … I don’t even have to explain this, right? Basically, after fruitlessly asking for an apology and getting nowhere, I abandoned my usual “take the high road” approach when arguing with Matt and returned his insults with as much vitriol and intimidation as they warranted.
Here’s the dynamic. I think I mentioned this before: I’m 6’3’’ and about 210, and Matt is 5’9’’ and about 140. So it was usually pretty easy to take the high road because the thought that he could do anything physically was laughable, and plus, I try to be mature, talk stuff out, be reasonable. You know, be an adult.
But not with this word. I freely admit it. I was seeing red. So when he hurled insults, I actually returned them, for once. I think this shocked the good hell out of everyone involved, because I’m usually the gentleman. Anyhow, at one point he ran upstairs to his room, and when he returned to the landing, he had a loaded shotgun in his hands. And he aimed it at me (and the friend, who was still there, idiotically, since I told both her and the girlfriend before it even escalated that they might want to vacate the premises).
Look, the n-word is one of the few things I will physically fight over. But there’s no arguing with the barrel of a gun. I ran out of my own house with a speed belonging to someone 10 years younger.
I’m moving out tomorrow. (The only reason I couldn’t move last week is that I had an out-of-town wedding to attend from Thursday through Sunday).
I am an idiot. I am an idiot. I was moved to make an Internet poll, and I ignored it. I am an idiot. But a moving idiot, now. And life goes on.
Other observations:
Of course, this is 270 degrees east in terms of severity, but I have much more empathy now for sufferers of domestic violence. Or, really, anyone who gets into a situation that is so clearly untenable from the outside, but is unwilling to change it. The writing was on the wall, yet I ignored the signs that were there from the beginning. Ignore unsafe people at your peril. This is a good, stark life lesson for me. An obvious one, but now it has resonance. I cannot afford to ignore unsafe signs because I, in a real sense, endangered my life. Twice.
A further irony is that I didn’t want to move in February because I had just moved in, but now I’m in a much worse position because in February, I still had savings. But a job search that’s taken longer than expected (because it always does) means that I have to move when my savings are almost depleted. Life is funny that way, I guess.
Finally, guess who’s moving in to take my place on the lease? The girlfriend. Yup, she saw everything, and still wants to move in. I’m kicking myself for my idiocy in the matter, and I don’t know what could be more eloquent than actually seeing the whole thing herself, so I really don’t know what to say to her that won’t sound like hypocrisy.
Well, that’s pretty damn scary.
But it is also a felony. If you can get the others present to corroborate, he can be arrested, and likely convicted. That would solve the issue of him having legal firearms, at least.
Wow. Who would have guessed that there would be even more drama?
I’m probably one of the biggest pro gun guys here in this board. Own wire a few, conceal carry and went shooting today. My first reaction was to tell you to stop worrying, he has a right to have a firearm. But then, I read the party about him handling his firearm while drinking. I didn’t get any further because right there is a big problem. Never ever mix guns and booze, EVER. His statement that the gun want loaded doesn’t wash either. You treat every firearm as if it was loaded, period.
I get the feeling that your roommate isn’t mature enough yet to be in possession of a firearm. We all have a right to be armed, but we all don’t deserve to be.
I’m a gun owner who believes the 2nd amendment is absolute, firearms rights SHALL NOT be infringed, I originally voted that you should have MYOB…
With this latest update, I change my vote, roomie has unequivocally verified the fact that he has no right to own a firearm, ever, and should in fact have all his firearms taken, and his 2nd amendment rights revoked, he should not ever be able to touch another firearm again
Jerks like this make law abiding gun owners look bad, he deserves to do time in the straight-bar motel
I voted no but I would pull option three and just break the lease.
BTW - I am one of those “pry them from my cold dead fingers” type but that is mostly in terms of Uncle Sugar. With all others people I expect to be reasonable and responsible. Which means being quiet about what I have where and keeping locks on everything not on my person at the time.
^ ^ ^ ^
Agree with this. Call the cops on his ass and have him arrested. If you don’t, he might actually shoot somebody the next time. And there will be a next time.
It’s not so much the fun of saying I told you so as it is knowing you get to hear it.