US voters: Are you afraid of the other side, and to what extent?

While I don’t quite share your pessimism over the inevitable fall of civilization, I will point out it is not the people with the guns who will call the shots, it is the people who are able to organize the people with the guns who will call the shots.

In the End Times scenario, lots of people who have guns are going to find out the hard way that a gun doesn’t offer any form of protection. It is other people who provide protection.

As a white straight male, you probably don’t see it. If your only disagreement is whether people who are not white straight males should be treated as human beings and citizens with the same rights as white straight males, then it’s easy to change the subject.

If you are not a straight white male, then whether or not you are treated as a human being and citizen with the same rights as white straight males is something that you are subject to, and not something that you can ask them to politely change.

Yeah, that sums up Fox, OAN, pretty much all the AM airwaves, as well as most right wing politicians.

Nope. Not buying it. You are not dismissing my experiences with that straw man.

To do so paves over the path we need for people to get along. The situation has been recognized and we need to move past it. You do not get past racial bias by saying “except for those people over there”.

Band name!

I’m not dismissing your experiences. I am explaining your admitted lack of experiences. No strawman here.

When someone says they “don’t tend to see it.” either they aren’t around it, or they turn a blind eye to it. It doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist.

There are some people out there who will never get along with those they think to be different or other. They will continue to harrass, humiliate, dehumanize, and denigrate them.

If in order for you to get along with them, you have to turn a blind eye to the harm they do to your fellow citizens, and “change the subject”, then you are enabling their hatred.

“The situation”? Which situation is this?

Talk about strawman! How does that relate to anything that I said?

You don’t get past racial bias by implicitly accepting it either.

So. I’m going to make two statements you can agree or disagree with:

  1. Neither of us are going to say anything that’s going to have the other slap their forehead and exclaim “You’re right!”
  2. We’re debating different topics.

I got offended at the ‘White CIS Male’ and responded accordingly…even after saying: "[we] are removing our ability to have civil disagreements *online and in the media *

So, with that on the table…there’s no way to adequately convey my experiences and it’s trivially easy for you to throw down the ‘White Straight Male’ card.

And then this isn’t discourse (on what you’re afraid of the other side…in this case, mouthbreathing faith-based koolaid drinking Trump Loving Republicans)…it’s you and I going round and round on something that can’t be resolved to either of our satisfaction.

Forgive me if ‘Your just a White Straight Male’ in this thread doesn’t feel like you’re painting with too broad a brush.

You’re only going to get one side of the story since there aren’t many conservatives here, but yes I"m afraid of the other side for a wide range of very valid reasons

  • They’re trying to destroy democracy with voter suppression, gerrymandering, letting partisan legislatures overturn elections, etc.
  • They’re so angry over living in a multicultural society that they’re becoming ok with domestic terrorism to suppress movements for equality. We’re basically looking at the genesis of Jim crow in the south, where establishment and extrajudicial oppression and terrorism is used to fight back against multiculturalism. There is an active war on democracy from the right.
  • Law enforcement can’t be trusted to take this seriously. Due to institutional and personal biases in favor of conservatism and social hierarchies like white supremacy that pervade law enforcement, they’re probably going to ignore the issue or if they do deal with it, hand out lenient sentences (like the capital insurgents who are getting a few months in jail at worst).
  • They’ve never stopped trying to destroy the social safety net or the ability to earn a living wage.
  • GOP politicians who obviously know better are appealing to the most ignorant, stupid and dangerous voters in their ranks to further their own careers. There are almost no spines on the right’s politicians.
  • They live in a post fact world where they are endlessly victims, its election fraud anytime they lose, and they can just invent facts to suit their narrative and genuinely believe them.

I know conservatives are afraid of us but honestly their reasons are mostly made up from what I’ve seen.

  • The left is going to take all our guns (nope).
  • The left is going to collapse the economy (if anything, it tends to do better under the left)
  • The left wants to make the US communist (we can’t even get centrist legislation passed).

A lot of it is just projection. The right is scared that as they become the minority, they’ll start being treated the same way they treat minorities. They’re scared when white christians are the legislative minority, they’ll be treated hte way they treat non-whites, non-christians, feminists, etc.

It sucks beecause the media doesn’t want to admit that America isn’t as evolved as we say we are. We’re still a nation that is deeply divided by race (and to a lesser degree religion) and all this pushback against democracy and human rights is at root a pushback against multiculturalism.

Like others, I used to put bumper stickers on my car years ago. I don’t do that now, because I don’t want it vandalized.

One of the guys in that business networking group reached out to me on Facebook. It, uh, did not go well:

Note to Spoons; I’m not trying to reply to you directly, the “snip/quote” function doesn’t seem to be working for me so I had to reply and edit out the last couple of paragraphs of your post.

To the OP, yes, I fear the “other side”. I live in Idaho, I’m afraid to voice my political leanings with stickers or yard signs, I own guns and support and believe in the right to do so, but where I used to own them to exercise my right to do so, and to spend a fun afternoon plinking targets at the range, I now own them out of fear that I or my kids and grandkids may (will?) need to defend ourselves from our neighbors some day

I’m sort of the same way. I’ve inherited a number of guns. I used to target or skeet shoot a lot. Now I do live remote, and we do get bears roaming around, so that’s one reason to keep them. But now I’m seeing another reason.

Jesus, these assholes just tried to overthrow the government. Who knows what else they might do.

Individually, I’m not worried about MAGA folks at all. A person with any fighting experience, in decent physical condition, could drop most of them like a sack of potatoes. Mostly they are inexperienced and unconditioned and undisciplined. Some of them are ex-military, but a lot of those are rear-echeleon weenies with big ideas, barely useful even in a military formation.

But like any other flavor of bully and coward, they can get dangerous if they can gain some courage from superior numbers.

Even so - the thing to remember here is that they are not a revolution, they are a counter-revolution. They are not proletariat, they are petit-bourgeois. Point being - their violence isn’t an act of desperation, isn’t trying to gain anything. They are engaged in loss avoidance, and the thing they’re preserving is political supremacy, and being caught up in violence poses a risk of losing the thing they’re trying to protect.

Their violence is optional, designed to puff themselves up to look larger than they are. It’s not an act of desperation or survival, it’s a power flex. They’re terrified of being doxed, as they have much to lose. A house. A truck. Maybe a job, maybe a small business, maybe their credit rating or clean criminal record. So I don’t feel super unsafe while there are cameras and witnesses around.

They are terrified of playing on a level field where neither side has a birthright advantage. Where people are voted in, judged on or awarded for their merits alone. They know they haven’t earned the privilages they enjoy.

I am extremely concerned, maybe not actually scared yet, that more and more conservative leaders are openly questioning whether democracy is the best system for our country.

American caesarism is a growing force. The rationale is that conservatism can not defeat the irresistible lures of progressivism at the ballot box, progressivism leads to the destruction of the country and only a great man can seize power and restore the nation to moral Judeo-Christian values.

On second thought, that does scare the living fuck out of me.

Right, so when they get charged with felonies, they lose that. That’s one reason many of them are paper tigers. They don’t want to get too far ahead of existing permission structures.

The real thing to fear is when they get a critical mass too large for the police to manage, and the extremist-infested police departments start arguing in favor of deputizing them to “control” them.

When they start operating as paramilitary gangs under the color of law, that’s when you really need to start worrying. But until that time, most of them won’t want to do stuff that will end up on their permanent record.

Oh, Trump will just pardon them. We saw how well that worked out on January 6th.

The mistake that the knuckleheads and armchair tough guys are making is that they think only righties own guns. I’m a liberal, I own guns, and I have military combat training. You behave yourselves and I’ll behave myself.

I’d have some degree of sympathy for that position, if the “Great Man” they’d glommed onto wasn’t Donald Fucking Trump.

Julius Caesar he ain’t. He ain’t even Nero.

Well, I don’t. One of this country’s founding principles is freedom of religion.

I don’t care how stupid these Trump supporters are. I really don’t. They have had years and years (decades even) to see what an utter fool Trump is.

But no. They latch on to Qannon. The most ridiculous bullshit on the internet.

We’ve tried to reason with them. We’ve tried to educate them. Doesn’t work.

No sympathy from me.

Caligula?

A horse would have been the shining star of Trump’s cabinet. By far the most competent.