US voters: Are you afraid of the other side, and to what extent?

[Tim_T-Bonham.net]

Being now what they call a Moderate*, I get it from both sides!

On the left, there seem to be a lot of people who are very intolerant of anyone who does not agree 100% with their views. An example: discussing the health care system, I said that I favor single-payer, but competition in providers allowing me to choose between doctors, clinics, hospitals – I was screamed at for being a medico-fascist "in the pocket of Big Pharma & Big Insurance Companies. Left me just bemused, since , having worked for medical insurance companies, I think they should be abolished.

Luckily, on the left if you disagree with the party line, they seem to immediately you names like fascist, racist, Nazi, etc. and ‘denounce’ you. But just name-calling, not actual violence. Unless you attend rallies or counter-protests, where that might happen. Sometimes vandalism – an elected official friend of mine has had her car tires slashed 3 times this past year, and some windows in her house broken, but no physical injury to either her or her child.

While on the right, I do think that most of the KKK people seem like caricatures, like somebody on Jerry Springer. And the Christians, like the God Hates Fags church – they almost seem like a false flag action. All talk, little action.

But I do know that there are real crazy, dangerous people out there. And they mostly have weapons, and are just itching for an excuse to use them. People you really want to stay far away from.

The scary part is that both sides there think they are doing a good thing in attacking you: the left are saving democracy by fighting fascism, racism, etc., while the right is fighting the patriotic fight to save American democracy. And you are stuck between both of them.

*Funny, once I was considered a wild radical, back in college.

[The_Other_Waldo_Pepper]

@Czarcasm

Institutionalized racism has, is and will continue to be a major problem for a large proportion of our populace.

Well, sure; but it seems reasonable to hope that the Supreme Court will soon strike down affirmative action.

[Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor]

I live in a small Southern city.
The Democrats gave up trying decades ago.
No candidates to challenge the GOP in many elections.
Oddly, many local GOP pols have been quietly working to undermine the Trumpers, & the local Establishment recently turned out in force to block some Nazis from causing trouble.

[enipla]

@Velocity

I’m not a fan of Rittenhouse or the KKK, but Rittenhouse was at least shooting in self-defense. Whereas Antifa has kicked in a man’s teeth in Portland just for waving an American flag.

Antifa was just one example. The broader point was - there are numerous people in the world who do evil in the name of good, thinking they’re actually fighting on the side of justice and all that. They scare me far more than people who flat-up admit and own that they’re being evil for the sake of evil.

Bolding mine. And cite please.

The people trying to overthrow the government think they’re the good guys.

[k9bfriender]

@Velocity

The broader point was - there are numerous people in the world who do evil in the name of good, thinking they’re actually fighting on the side of justice and all that. They scare me far more than people who flat-up admit and own that they’re being evil for the sake of evil.

The “stop the steal” people will not admit that they are being evil, they will tell you that they are patriots, defending their country from the evil democrats who are trying to take it over and institute a tyranny.

No fear from them though?

[k9bfriender]

@Spoons

The scary part is that there are people–and I’m sure that Kirk’s questioner is not the only one–who feel that guns and killing are the only solution to what they see as a problem, and are emboldened enough to ask about that at a public forum.

The don’t just see it as the only solution, they see it as the preferred solution. They didn’t ask, “When do we have to use guns?” they asked, “When do we get to use guns?” They are looking forward to killing their fellow countrymen, and care more for the excuse to commit murder than they do about the country.

[BobLibDem]

Of course I’m afraid of them. They’re motherfucking crazy. They want to stop people who don’t look like them or pray like them or think like them from having any say in how the country is run. They believe everything they read on their Facebook feeds or what they hear in right wing radio and television and think they any election that they don’t win is by definition fraudulent and the violence is inevitable and necessary in order to keep perpetual power. So as a survival tactic, we keep our heads down and present low profiles so as not to stand out as targets. Depending on where you live, identifying publicly as a liberal can get you killed.

[k9bfriender]

@BobLibDem

So as a survival tactic, we keep our heads down and present low profiles so as not to stand out as targets. Depending on where you live, identifying publicly as a liberal can get you killed.

I don’t know that it would get me killed. My home and business vandalized, likely non-lethal physical confrontations, smear campaign against my business on social media and other forms of harassment, sure.

Cancel culture is very strong with the right. Whereas the left may threaten to cancel their Netflix account, or forgo a chicken sandwich shop over their disagreement with the views supported by certain platforms, the right will become violent and threatening in the face of any disagreement with their disingenuous narrative.

[MethidManTMA]

All of you who are afraid of these people need to man up. Don’t you realize that your fear is only going to embolden them further? Besides, as one poster said, most of them are all bark and no bite. Why do they get to be ballsy about their beliefs and not us? If anything, we need them to be afraid of us.

Democracy is fragile; we need the strength more than ever to defend it.

[Velocity]

On social media like Reddit, the mindset of lockstep is also pretty frightening. I once got banned from a conservative political subReddit for mentioning Trump’s comment about how he could have shot someone on Fifth Avenue and not lost any votes, even though that’s actually something he said.

[Babale]

@Velocity

People like Antifa scare me

Does Lord Voldemort scare you too? What about dragons? Or sand worms? You know - if we are naming things that don’t exist.

@Velocity

KKK and white supremacist folks don’t scare me - they’re all bark and no bite

LOL

[k9bfriender]

I’m not willing to threaten violence and/or kill if I don’t get my way politically. They are.

If we get to where both sides are willing to threatening violence over political disagreements, then our democracy is broken.

And that’s exactly what they want. Following your advice to “man up” spells the end of self governance, and a return to violent tyranny and despotism.

Using the poster who claimed that the KKK and white supremacists are all bark and no bite is not a very good example of reflecting reality.

[MethidManTMA]

I’m not asking anyone to threaten violence, I’m asking to not be intimidated by them. At the very least, don’t show fear and cowardice to them because that’ll just let them know that they can push you around without consequence.

Make it so that they know there’ll be difficulty in them choosing to use violence. Don’t give them the idea that they can walk all over you.

[Jihi]

@Spoons

But still, “When do we get to use the guns?” seems to me to be an unreasonable question. The scary part is that there are people–and I’m sure that Kirk’s questioner is not the only one–who feel that guns and killing are the only solution to what they see as a problem, and are emboldened enough to ask about that at a public forum.

It is an unreasonable question. But this is the core of the Republican party as it exists now. This one person at this event simply said the not so quiet part out loud. This is the end result of decades of a major political party not only appealing to our worst tribal instincts but actively cultivating it for political gain.

I recently started a new job. I like the job, I’d like to keep it with minimal friction in the short term at the very least. But my second week a co-worker asked me if I had been vaccinated. I told him yes, I’ve been fully vaccinated since some time in April. When i asked him the same he said “no” and implied he wouldn’t be getting vaccinated anytime soon. My response was simply “Good to know.” Thankfully he dropped it and hasn’t asked any other such questions since. Does that make me a coward? Maybe but it’s just not a minefield I want to navigate in this circumstance.

[octopus]

The loony far left and those that use and pander to them are far more worrisome and actually dangerous because their political violence is cloaked in the appealing language of virtue. However, their illiberal and racist ideology is far from the virtue they claim.

[Procrustus]

@octopus

The loony far left and those that use and pander to them are far more worrisome and actually dangerous because their political violence is cloaked in the appealing language of virtue. However, their illiberal and racist ideology is far from the virtue they claim .

Yeah, fuck both those guys.

[thorny_locust]

@octopus

The loony far left and those that use and pander to them are far more worrisome and actually dangerous because their political violence is cloaked in the appealing language of virtue.

Again: whose isn’t?

[octopus]

If you read papers like NYT, etc you can tell that there is a growing schism in the left of center factions. That wouldn’t be the case if the loony far left were tiny in numbers and influence.

[kenobi_65]

@Velocity

KKK and white supremacist folks don’t scare me - they’re all bark and no bite

Tell that to the families of the nine African Americans who were shot and killed at their church in 2015 by a self-avowed white supremacist.

Tell that to the 35 people who were injured at the Charlottesville rally in 2017, when a white supremacist intentionally plowed his car into a group of counter-protesters. Tell that to the family of the counter-protester whom he killed with his car.

Don’t be an apologist for people like this.

[thorny_locust]

Tell it to the worshippers at the Tree of Life synagogue, for that matter.

I could go on for quite a while; but I have other things to get done today.