Game day? I think not. I’m too deeply disgusted for invective to even begin to express what I think of that lame comparison.
Do you remember the phrase, “The world is watching?” Maybe not. This time the world was listening, and these guys knew it. That these people, despite all they have been through, could still muster up the energy and fervor to do what they did was damn close to heroic.
Not to pile on… but i think, Otto, that maybe you miss the point. It’s true that people chant “USA” at Olympic events and perhaps the semi-finals of the World Cup - both utterly trivial compared to this horror.
But I don’t think for an instant that their chanting was either trivial or disrespectful. They’re walkign through with no end in sight, moving mountains of debris from the mass grave in the ever-diminishing hope of finding another survivor. Their efforts to rally themselves and their morale with a chant stem from exhaustion and the desire to symbolize what holds us all together.
I also don’t question your patriotism. You see something that demands somber reflection and think it’s diminished by chanting. It’s an understandable reaction - but I’m very sure it’s not what you thought it was. I invite you to take another look at this, through the eyes and hearts of these men that are covered in stench and sorrow… and see if maybe it doesn’t come across a bit differently.
OK, this should clear any confusion up. The protocol has changed. The people doing their patriotic fucking best to clean up one of the worst things they have ever witnessed, MAKE THE FUCKING RULES. It’s not inappropriate if they do it. Now that they have done it, it is inappropriate for you NOT TO. Whatever they do right now is fucking appropriate, and if they all deside to suck the presidents cock on their break, then that’s the new way to deal with sort of issue.
Erek
To the OP: it sounds to me as though you are accusing the firefighters of belittling or trivializing the dead, and the perhaps soon-to-be-dead, by engaging in a jingoistic display as though they were cheering on some sporting event, that they’re happy that we might go to war and that folks died to make it happen. I believe this to be a grave misinterpretation, to say the least.
You compare it to cheering when we win the gold in synchronized swimming. Perhaps this is true, but it draws entirely the wrong comparison. At the Olympics, the audience cheers with joy and pride for the athletes who’ve given their all. In this situation, those feelings are there, perhaps, but redirected. They’re NOT “reacting to the deaths,” not, as you seem to see it, chanting with joy because of, or at the expense of, those who died in fear and pain. They’re reacting to the living, to those who made it, to the bravery and compassion of their fellow man. Actually, strike that… Perhaps they were thinking of the dead, of the comrades who died trying to save others. Maybe they were cheering their courage and heroism. But I doubt you’d begrudge them that, would you? Maybe you would. But I hope you see that this is NOT the “same reaction.” Not by a long shot.
Ever been to a wake? Some people find that disrespectful, but many find it utterly appropriate, since they honor the best of the departed, instead of getting lost in the misery of their passing. Would you accuse them of being glad for the death? I think that’s an apt comparison here, and given the circumstances, I don’t see the problem.
Finally, I don’t see how you’d think that the same men who spent days unburying the dead and treating the dying would, under any circumstances, trivialize them, even for a moment. I just don’t see how that’s possible. If you think that’s what they were doing, I’m afraid you have a much bleaker view of basic human nature than I do.
I now have to scrub my brain with Clorox, after reading that. What an utterly bizarre and disturbing visual picture you painted for us there. Gee thanks. 
I think Bricker is dead-on. Otto, I don’t accuse you of not patriotic, but I also don’t think you are in any position to dictate how these men should react. I also think you totally misunderstood what they were trying to express. Certainly you are not taking into account what they are enduring, and how that might affect them.
So well said Bricker.
Otto, I retract all I said about your patriotism.
Unless you post other sentiments that indicate you have no love for your country,
I appologise.
Well, I don’t apologize.
You’re still a fool, Otto.
Bricker, I dont know if you have had any military experience or not.
Buddy I’d want someone like you in my rifle company.
No matter what these fools think. There is no such animal anymore as a “grunt”.
All I know is you made me see.
So what Otto? you in?
Hey Otto: FUCK YOU.
Listen up, felchmonkey. These men are risking their LIVES for the chance that they may save one of the victims, and you’re fucking CRITICIZING them?
You fucking worthless asshole. How shameful it is for you to insult their pride in their country, their hard work at cleaning up the horrid mess inflicted upon us. Do you realize how obnoxious it is for you to be opening your mouth and spewing this shit? You asshole. You’re a lowlife hypocrite.
They weren’t fucking celebrating ANYTHING, dipshit. They were showing that they’re doing this labor for their fallen countrymen! And you’re fucking calling their actions OBNOXIOUS?
I can tell you one thing: If you were in a tragedy and needed help, wouldn’t YOU want someone trying to rescue you? Don’t fucking belittle the hard work of the hundreds of people trying to help right this tremendous wrong.
Oh, and did I say you’re an abrasive asshole? Get lost.
Yea eat shit dude.
For inspiring me to my first Pit thread. Those people at Ground Zero are doing a necessary and extremely difficult job. They are digging through the rubble of two of the world’s tallest buildings and praying they find a survivor while picking up pieces of bodies; hands, arms, and unidentifiable bits of flesh that look more like something out of a butcher shop. These are beginning to rot now so that horror is added as well. Think about it.
And you, safely sitting at your home PC are offended because they cheer when the President comes to praise and encourage them. Otto, you don’t have the RIGHT. Those people are actually working, volunteering their personal time and effort to make things better. How about you?
Testy.
I just saw the “offending” footage being replayed on TV, and I also just saw some firemen and/or volunteers being interviewed about what they thought of Bush’s visit.
It seemed quite obvious to me that the cheering was an expression of love, loyalty and devotion for the USA. I felt that these dear men were showing that they were doing this work for the USA. They also responded to Bush’s comment that the people who “caused these walls to fall down will hear us”. I think the firemen were heartened that the evil that caused the tragedy they were witnessing would be dealt with. All of these elements seemed to be prompting the chant.
Certainly they were not “celebrating” war. Certainly they were not being disrespectful to those who were buried underneath the rubble. They were just expessing their love for the USA, and their dedication to their duty. And also, they were expressing deep feelings about the pain and tragedy that put them there, doing what they were doing.
The volunteers interviewed on the news just now said they were really boosted by Bush’s visit. They really appreciated him coming down there, “rubbing shoulders” with them. It meant a lot to them. It said it helped them keep going, keep working. One guy I saw interviewed earlier was absolutely elated that he got to meet Bush. He even had his picture taken with the President. This dear man called it a “high point in his life”. He also vowed that he’d be back for the duration, and keep helping out.
Another guy said he had just gotten off a 26 hour shift. Hadn’t slept in 26 hours. And he was going to return later, after he had some shut-eye.
These are in no way disrespectful, or irreverant men.
It’s not a fucking game day and we all know that…my God do you need a slam in your head to understand that those men and women need a kick to jumpstart them again in a very tedious and sad task? Do you need someone to come to your home and kick your ass to realize that those people need some patriotism, some send of brother/sisterhood to keep up with the horrible task at hand?
Your head seems to be thicker than the walls that surrounded the WTC towers to begin with. Your head is full with no understanding. Those men and women need every effort to keep their spirits high and their thoughts on the task at hand. Apparently you are too God-damned dense to understand that these people are dealing with a horrific, completely horrific task at hand. Yet you sit back and are being so God-damned petty over the most incredible bullshit I have seen in this forum since I got here in 1999.
Those men and women need a rally cry, you fuck-whit…those men and women need to feel they are doing well. Your words are horrid, I spit on you, I dislike you, I even hate you for I already stated you couldn’t even do what those people are doing for New York and our nation.
No, you fuck-ass, this isn’t about a football game, a baseball game, it’s about our fellow country-people working together in extremelly difficult time, the worst we have seen and working to give each other some strength.
If you are so inclined, please go to the sight and lend your hand. Give them the appropriate means by which to give each other strength…it’s people like you that sit behind your computer and can’t appreciate what they are doing. You work with your mind, they work with their hands and they do it proudly, if they need a rally-cry, let them have it but don’t be a complete fuck and say that shit. I very much dislike people like you being from both the computer world and from the construction world of business and life. Our world doesn’t revolve around the likes of you. Our world revolves around all working as one in the face of diversity and loving one another for our differences.
In short, it’s people like you that make the problems we have in our world. If there are more like you I am sorry for what will happen to this world because it’s a sad and scary place.
You filthy fucking troll. Apparently your sense of decency must have dribbled down your cousin’s leg. These poor bastards are forced into doing an autopsy on their city. They didn’t ask for this unique privilege.
If this was Baghdad or some other filth-ridden terrorist shithole, they people at the site would be doing two things; chanting “Death To America!”, and looting the dead of watches, rings and gold teeth.
Next time you think about criticizing these brave people from your fucking LaZBoy, count to ten, then pull the trigger with your toe, ok?
-Rav
Otto, did you see the looks on those mens’ faces as they were chanting? They were utterly exhausted, mentally and physically, and continuing to work on the slight chance there are any more survivors. The defiance, pride, and patriotism I saw in their faces broke me down completely. I am a 6’4" 235 pound male and I was laying on my bed sobbing uncontrollably, something I can never remember doing, not when my best friend died, not when my parents were divorced, never.
Hey, I’m normally as annoyed by blind patriotism as the next guy, and I’ve been annoyed by people chanting things like “USA! USA! USA!” before, but I do believe that this is the time to make an exception. In such a tragic time, the people need a sense of identity, and a sense that things will be ok. If patriotic chants help this in ANY way, then please - chant as much as you can.
Besides, as everyone’s pointed out. Their job is far brom being an easy one.
Ott, your criticism is so off-base. Are you so fuckin’ stupid that you can’t see how emotionally and physically exhausted these rescue workers are? Why don’t you try searching rubble in a dangerously unstable, debris-filled ruin for 12 hours at a time?
For me, the USA chant was an expression of belief in our nation and our people. For you to denigrate that from your comfy, oh-so-superior position is contemptible.
Fuck you!
**
A Canadian just pointed out to you what the chant meant. You’re comparing apples and bowling balls.
That someone from another country understands better than you do might signal it’s time to come up for air from out of your ass.
**
You unconscionably offensive fucking moron.
One group of people was saying, “We are proud! We are united! We are unbowed! We will not stand for this atrocity!”
The other group of people was saying, “Woo hoo! Thousands of Americans were just killed in a terrorist attack!”
At least now I have a poster-boy for that element on these boards since Tuesday that is absolutely making my stomach turn …
What an arrogant son of a bitch you are for demanding that everyone express their love of freedom in exactly the same way as you. Otto, you are without a doubt the sorriest piece of shit I’ve seen here in a long, long time.
Until such time as you have been working for days, retrieving body PARTS when you’ve been looking for survivors, you are cordially invited to take your self-righteous, sanctimonious, “everyone should react just how I react” piss poor excuse for an OP and shove it up your ass. Sideways.
Well, Otto, in rehersal, they tried chanting “Oh, what a tradgedy, let’s reflect on this lose and pray for an apropriately measured response” but they couldn’t get the timing down. :rolleyes:
Celebrating? Yes they were celebrating. Celebrating a feeling of unity and determination not to give in to such a cowardly atrocity. I have no problem with the form this celebration took, and from this thread, neither does anyone else. Comparing that to brainwashed people blindly cheering the deaths of thousands of innocents is obnoxous, insulting and vulgar- and extremely demeaning to those who died, and those who toil so tirelessly with rescue efforts in the face of rapidly dimming prospects for success. If the WTC had been filled with assholes like you, we’d be dancing in the streets, not a few Palistinians.