VCO3's real problem with his neighbors: a shocking exposé!

[Hostile_Dialect]

@CarnalK

Actually with a little poking around, I think I see why fetus jumped to a conclusion. The picture link has “training” and “dog” in the url. However, the website is about training bird dogs (for hunting) and one section is about using trained birds to train your dogs with.
www.uplandbirddog.com/training/pigeon.html

Ah, good, the trip is over.

Can we get back to rational discussion now? For those who are here on Earth with me, let’s go back to VCO3’s very late list of offenses:

@VCO3

constant cloud of weed smoke in the hallway with thumping rap music coming from within the apartment

We already heard about the weed smoke. As for thumping rap music, lots of people do that, and most of them aren’t thugs. Hell, there have been times in my life when you could have walked into my apartment and been nearly suffocated by the weed smoke and, yes, there would be thumping rap music playing. I’m no thug.

@VCO3

guy screaming “nigger, nigger!” into his cell phone in front of the building while families walk by

Translation: “They’re loud black people, so they must be thugs.” We heard this one. Apparently, this is more offensive and thuggish than,

@VCO3

my first interaction with them was passing them as they were moving in and saying, “hey, what’s up?” to which they responded with the “hard” stare and no words.

because it was offered as the sole explanation in the original thread as to why VCO3 was intimidated by them. No, nevermind, he said he didn’t want to talk to them because they were smoking weed, as well…and then told us that he was a card-carrying member of NORML. Somehow, I’m thinking that doesn’t add up.

@VCO3

vulgar, insulting, and abusive catcalls out the window at my fine-ass wife and her hot friend in the middle of the afternoon which issued from their apartment

This sounds much more offensive than any of the above, yet VCO3 didn’t mention it in the original thread as evidence for why he doesn’t want to talk to them. Does that make any more sense to any of you guys than it does to me? If so, can someone explain it to me?

@VCO3

thug caricature appearance, as though they’re auditioning to play Fiddy in a biopic.

Again, it’s quite common among rap fans (he’s referring to rap “artist” 50 Cent, for those who don’t know) to emulate their favorite musical acts in clothing style. For evidence of thuggishness, this one’s a loser.

@VCO3

kicked a girl out in the middle of the night last weekend, who stood screaming in front of the building and hitting all of the buzzers until the cops were called

Well, OK. That’s a good point showing that they’re bad roommates. But dangerous roommates? I dunno. Anyway, why wasn’t this mentioned originally? Again, this sounds like it should be more offensive than a little weed smoke to a member of NORML.

@VCO3

the busted-ass scraper that’s suddenly parked out front of the building all day long, usually taking up twice its share of curb space

I’ve hardly seen more nutso drivers than in my short stay in Chicago. I bet they’re not his only neighbors who drive shitty cars and double-park them, and if they are, that hardly sounds intimidating. Anyway, wouldn’t real criminals rake in enough dough from their exploits to fix up their car every once in a while?

@VCO3

what appears to be a pigeon coop going up on the shared back stars of the building, outside their back door

I’m completely baffled as to what significance this has, now that I know it has nothing to do with dog training. Somebody mentioned above that a lot of black people and stereotypical black characters in black comedies raise a lot of pigeons, but I guess I haven’t noticed that. I’ve known lots and lots of black people across all socioeconomic levels, starting from my early childhood in an upper-middle-class black neighborhood (the wealthiest predominantly black county in America, actually, IIRC) and continuing through all kinds of other experiences I don’t see fit to list. Anyway, unless it violates some no-pets clause in that complex, I don’t see how the fact that they raise pigeons (?) should be intimidating. If it does violate such a rule, what sensible neighbor wouldn’t call the landlord and let them know?

[CarnalK]

@fetus

The fact that they’re included in his list of “thuggish” activities suggest that they’re being used to train fighting dogs.

That still doesn’t really make any sense, Sapo, but it does re-enforce my guess that he jumped to the conclusion when he saw “dog” in the url. It really wouldn’t have taken much more effort on his part to see it was a hunting dog site.

eta: simulpost, but that “Ah, good, the trip is over.” is a little obnoxious considering you were the one with the loopiness. But whatever, have fun with your rational convo.

[Sarahfeena]

@fetus

I’m completely baffled as to what significance this has, now that I know it has nothing to do with dog training. Somebody mentioned above that a lot of black people and stereotypical black characters in black comedies raise a lot of pigeons, but I guess I haven’t noticed that. I’ve known lots and lots of black people across all socioeconomic levels, starting from my early childhood in an upper-middle-class black neighborhood (the wealthiest predominantly black county in America, actually, IIRC) and continuing through all kinds of other experiences I don’t see fit to list. Anyway, unless it violates some no-pets clause in that complex, I don’t see how the fact that they raise pigeons (?) should be intimidating. If it does violate such a rule, what sensible neighbor wouldn’t call the landlord and let them know?

I’ve lived in two predominately black neighborhoods in Chicago, and I’ve never heard of anyone raising pigeons. And most of my neighbors right now are black, too, and none of them raise pigeons either.

On the other hand, my husband had a neighbor when he was a kid who raised pigeons, and those folks were Italian. So riddle me that one, Batman.

[CarnalK]

@fetus

I’m completely baffled as to what significance this has, now that I know it has nothing to do with dog training.

It is pretty obnoxious behavior to build a fucking pigeon coop on the shared back stair area, if it is indeed a common area, and careless if it is a fire route.

An old black man living in the ghetto was raising pigeons on tonights “Cold Case”, as coincidence would have it. On the roof though.

[cynical313]

@Sarahfeena

I’ve lived in two predominately black neighborhoods in Chicago, and I’ve never heard of anyone raising pigeons. And most of my neighbors right now are black, too, and none of them raise pigeons either.

On the other hand, my husband had a neighbor when he was a kid who raised pigeons, and those folks were Italian. So riddle me that one, Batman.

Most references to it that I’ve seen seem to involve southern california. Back when I was originally a member here(years ago, before subscriptions) I started a thread on the topic and while some other people were aware of it, no one seemed to be able to explain where it came from.

[Hostile_Dialect]

@CarnalK

That still doesn’t really make any sense, Sapo, but it does re-enforce my guess that he jumped to the conclusion when he saw “dog” in the url. It really wouldn’t have taken much more effort on his part to see it was a hunting dog site.

eta: simulpost, but that “Ah, good, the trip is over.” is a little obnoxious considering you were the one with the loopiness. But whatever, have fun with your rational convo.

In all seriousness, I do appreciate that you took it upon yourself to figure out why I came to that conclusion.

@CarnalK

It is pretty obnoxious behavior to build a fucking pigeon coop on the shared back stair area, if it is indeed a common area, and careless if it is a fire route.

Yes, it is. So why wasn’t it mentioned earlier? Again, to a card-carrying member of NORML, don’t you think it’d be more obnoxious than smoking a lot of weed?

ETA:

@cynical313

Most references to it that I’ve seen seem to involve southern california. Back when I was originally a member here(years ago, before subscriptions) I started a thread on the topic and while some other people were aware of it, no one seemed to be able to explain where it came from.

I’ve lived in Southern California for 10 years, and have yet to meet a single person who raised pigeons. I have yet to even hear anecdotal evidence that this has happened here.

[Antinor01]

@fetus

Yes, it is. So why wasn’t it mentioned earlier? Again, to a card-carrying member of NORML, don’t you think it’d be more obnoxious than smoking a lot of weed?

You don’t think that it’s possible to support changes in the law regarding marijuana and also not want your home to smell like it?

I support the right of people to slaughter animals and butchers to chop them up so I can eat steak. Doesn’t mean I want it happening in my living room.

[cynical313]

@fetus

I’ve lived in Southern California for 10 years, and have yet to meet a single person who raised pigeons. I have yet to even hear anecdotal evidence that this has happened here.

Well, that was coming from what I’ve heard from Californians, I don’t live there so I can’t drive down to south central to see if it’s true. Also most of the movies that have used it took place in Southern Cal(though I think Ghost Dog was new york). I’m not claiming first hand knowledge here, but I’ve seen and heard enough references that the idea must be coming from somewhere. A google search brought up a few references to it(one article gave banning pigeon raising as an example of black culture being stiffled), but nothing dealing entirely with the subject.

[Wile_E]

@Heffalump and Roo

But the minimum 5 minutes it took you to read the OP, look at the link and respond twice was what. . . . productive?

It certainly took less effort.

@fetus

“15 minutes” was a generic term for some amount of time I wasn’t paying attention to. Could’ve been 5 minutes, could’ve been 20. Of course, I’m not the one petty enough to care, so YMMV.

I don’t really care, I just felt the effort and pitting on your part was rather petty. This seems like a knee-jerk reaction to a VCO3 post.

Let’s face it, if it were any other poster they would not be getting pitted for saying they were uncomfortable with the idea of personally confronting their black neighbors about all their illegal pot smoke because they found them intimidating. But VC has a history of being well, a jerk, so obviously this is a racist comment because only a racist would be intimidated about confronting large black guys about their illegal activities when they know where you live. Unfortunately for VC he chose to describe them as “thuggish” without going into extreme details for this personification.

When called on his comment he gave more reasons for feeling intimidated which only served as more fuel to the fire. The guy just can’t win. Maybe he’s stereotyping, maybe not. These guys already engage in at least one illegal activity, that we know of, isn’t it very possible that they could engage in others and that is enough cause for someone to feel uncomfortable with directly confronting them, without being a racist?

And for those who think VC is a troll and is just out for attention, then why keep giving it to him? Why jump on every little thing that you can pit him for whenever the opportunity rises?

[CarnalK]

fetus said:
Yes, it is. So why wasn’t it mentioned earlier? Again, to a card-carrying member of NORML, don’t you think it’d [a pigeon coop] be more obnoxious than smoking a lot of weed?

I suppose, depending on how much he uses the back steps. If all the other people stack their garbage there it’d be harder to complain.

So are you really suggesting it’s all bullshit besides the pot smoking and that he just wants help evicting them? Or just that he’d let it all slide if it was loud pot smoking white guys building a chicken coop?

It’s not unfeasible that he could have had the same IMHO question if some loud biker looking types moved in. Therefore, ISTM, this Pit thread is fair enough if that’s how you feel, but I think the hijacking and the requirement of a moderator’s general admonishing was definitely out of line in the IMHO thread. I have to admit though, it was pretty funny seeing sooo many Dopers forgetting which forum they were in.

[ForumBot]

I think there’s a question that hasn’t been answered.

Who the hell wants more pigeons?

[Cat_Whisperer]

@ForumBot

I think there’s a question that hasn’t been answered.

Who the hell wants more pigeons?

Not me. The flying rats can take the tree rats with them and all bugger off. Oh, and take the crows too - noisy bastards.

The OP - I do not support it. It is flimsy and insubstantial. I do not find VC03’s post racist.

Are we at the point in our excruciating political correctness that any mention of anyone’s race in any context is now racist?

[Hostile_Dialect]

@Antinor01

You don’t think that it’s possible to support changes in the law regarding marijuana and also not want your home to smell like it?

That’s not what I said.

@Wile E

Let’s face it, if it were any other poster they would not be getting pitted for saying they were uncomfortable with the idea of personally confronting their black neighbors about all their illegal pot smoke because they found them intimidating.

I’m sure I’d Pit them, too, if they changed their position several times like VCO3 has. First, in the OP, he wasn’t saying anything to their face because he didn’t want a conflict between neighbors, in a general sense. Then, later in that thread, the picture changed: he didn’t say anything to their face because they’re loud black people. (That’s all he said, folks. “Screaming ‘nigger nigger’ into his phone” was the only evidence presented that any of the tenants in question were “thuggish”.) Then, when he got called on it, he produced a list of things that sounded offensive enough that, if they were actually true, he would’ve surely mentioned them earlier. Again, I’ve yet to hear a rational answer as to why a card-carrying member of NORML would be more offended by pot smoke than (say) obnoxious catcalls.

@Wile E

When called on his comment he gave more reasons for feeling intimidated which only served as more fuel to the fire. The guy just can’t win. Maybe he’s stereotyping, maybe not.

If he had started out by saying “these thuggish black guys are making catcalls to my wife; what should I do?”, I for one would not consider that racist. But once the details came out, it was clear that either (a) he was making up a list of offenses to make himself sound more reasonable or (perhaps more likely) (b) the legitimate offenses made him uncomfortable, but the easiest thing he could think of to nail these guys on was their weed smoking. That’s particularly cowardly coming from, again, a card-carrying member of NORML, who presumably would not even consider narcing on a bunch of stoners otherwise.

@Wile E

These guys already engage in at least one illegal activity, that we know of, isn’t it very possible that they could engage in others and that is enough cause for someone to feel uncomfortable with directly confronting them, without being a racist?

It’s certainly possible. The whole thing still stinks, and I’m not sure I buy it.

@CarnalK

So are you really suggesting it’s all bullshit besides the pot smoking and that he just wants help evicting them? Or just that he’d let it all slide if it was loud pot smoking white guys building a chicken coop?

I’m suggesting that the parts don’t add up to a sum that makes an ounce of sense to me. It just reeks.

@featherlou

Are we at the point in our excruciating political correctness that any mention of anyone’s race in any context is now racist?

(1) Did I even use the word “racist” in the OP?

(2) Did I not later plead to VCO3 that I was taking every logical recourse to not call him a racist?

(3) Have I, at any point in time, referred to VCO3 as “a racist”? A lot of other people sure have, but not me. I’ve had to falsely bear that cross before, and I know how much it hurts.

Alls I’m saying is the whole thing doesn’t make sense to me. A marijuana legalization advocate is more offended by the smell of pot smoke than by a bunch of young dudes making catcalls at his wife? What planet does that scenario come from?

[crowmanyclouds]

@featherlou

… Oh, and take the crows too - noisy bastards. …

HEY, my posts aren’t that loud!

CMC+fnord!
And, I drink coffee, go camping, and clean highways too!

[Antinor01]

Let’s look at his list…

@VCO3

• constant cloud of weed smoke in the hallway with thumping rap music coming from within the apartment

This was his complaint and what the thread was about. A constant annoyance that he asked for advice about.

• guy screaming “nigger, nigger!” into his cell phone in front of the building while families walk by

This sounds like a one time event, no real need for help with that.

• my first interaction with them was passing them as they were moving in and saying, “hey, what’s up?” to which they responded with the “hard” stare and no words.

Again, one time event.

• vulgar, insulting, and abusive catcalls out the window at my fine-ass wife and her hot friend in the middle of the afternoon which issued from their apartment

Another one that sounds like a one time.

• thug caricature appearance, as though they’re auditioning to play Fiddy in a biopic.

Gotta say, I would be hesitant to approach someone that went out of their way to look like a sterotypical ‘thug’.

• kicked a girl out in the middle of the night last weekend, who stood screaming in front of the building and hitting all of the buzzers until the cops were called

Another one time event.

• the busted-ass scraper that’s suddenly parked out front of the building all day long, usually taking up twice its share of curb space

I’m not sure what a scraper is, but from the context it sounds like a car that looks ready to break down. But then, he didn’t ask for help with this one.

• what appears to be a pigeon coop going up on the shared back stars of the building, outside their back door

If he doesn’t use the back stairs much and there isn’t a smell, I understand not complaining on this one. He didn’t mention this in his complaint.

All in all, it sounds like he has one major problem with his neighbors and the sum of these other individual events is what makes him hesitate about confronting them directly. It seems you interpret this differently but it really just sounds like you’re looking for reasons to pit VCO3 when he has plenty of other actual offenses around here.

[Liberal]

@lobstermobster

this is boring. I’m bored now.

Well, that’s exciting to hear.

[Sapo]

@Antinor01

You don’t think that it’s possible to support changes in the law regarding marijuana and also not want your home to smell like it?

I support the right of people to slaughter animals and butchers to chop them up so I can eat steak. Doesn’t mean I want it happening in my living room.

This is it.

fetus, I think you are putting too much stock on what you perceive as an inconsistency from VCO3 to be a NORML member and disliking the smell of pot 24/7. Most smokers I know, do not smoke inside their houses, because they don’t like the smell of stale cigs on their clothings and everything else.

Pretty much anything you enjoy can be taken to an extreme when it just becomes too much. I have no objection to VCO3, or anyone, being on NORML and disliking a perpetual cloud around his place.

[Cat_Whisperer]

fetus, if this isn’t about VC03 being a racist, what is it about? His being a poster who doesn’t post the entire story in his OP?

[Biggirl]

@Sapo

This is it.

fetus, I think you are putting too much stock on what you perceive as an inconsistency from VCO3 to be a NORML member and disliking the smell of pot 24/7. Most smokers I know, do not smoke inside their houses, because they don’t like the smell of stale cigs on their clothings and everything else.

Pretty much anything you enjoy can be taken to an extreme when it just becomes too much. I have no objection to VCO3, or anyone, being on NORML and disliking a perpetual cloud around his place.

I’d agree with this-- except for VCO3’s continual habit of ascribing the worst intent on everyone and everything he doesn’t like (and his list of things he doesn’t like is long and ridiculous). Here’s a partial list:

People who live in the suburbs.
White, rich people.
People who saved 500k for retirement.
Single black women over the age of 25.
All black people (they are too loud, you see.)
Bank accounts that give you interest.
People who use Bluetooth earpieces.
People with the last name “Squib”.

I’m sure there are even more ridiculous things that send him into an apoplectic fit, these are just the things that I remember off the top of my head. Couple his list of people and things he hates with his need to demonize them once he gets called on how stupid his irrational hatred is:

All black people are loud, this is not arguable.
All black people don’t drink coffee.
All black people don’t go camping.
All people with 500K saved are rich douchbags that need to be beheaded.
All people who use Bluetooth earpieces are ugly douches.
All people who live in suburbs are robotic assholes.
All this has lead me to believe VCO3 is, in fact, a racist who carefully crafted the OP in IMHO to see exactly how much ire he could raise against his ‘thuggish black neighbors’. Everyone else can go on giving him the benefit of the doubt, but I agree with fetus.

Doesn’t mean I don’t enjoy the shit outta VCO3. I mean, what’s not to love about a guy who gets all bent out of shape over the name “Squibb”?

[descamisado]

@fetus

And then he linked to a picture of a “pigeon coop” used to train dogs. Also, I’m not going to Pit you about it, but please don’t capitalize my username. Danke.

It was at the beginning of a sentence; otherwise, I would have been pitted by someone else for not following the rules of English language grammar.

And this is how you treat people who are in agreement with you. Sheesh.