Hey, I’m a Bills fan! Tenderly nursing my litany of complaints is my only solace. 
Vick has NOT. He has served the very light Federal sentence given by a very wealth-friendly court system. Many of us have been fighting for years to increase the penalties for cruelty (animal and otherwise) and long before Vick was caught the penalties for that crime were recognizably too light.
Then Vick completely avoided any sentence from the state of Virginia, which for some reason did not make him serve any time after his Federal sentence. The state was not nearly so nice to my nephew, coming after him for years of additional State time after his Federal time, but he’s not rich like Vick.
To many people, Vick has not paid anything like the debt he owes society. We were mad about it before he got out; we were working against it before he was caught. So you should know that the “paid his debt” argument carries no weight with a lot of us.
This just makes no sense whatsoever. You screwed up. It happens. Move on. Don’t try to justify it with gibberish.
Oh horseshit. He isn’t a role model. He’s an athlete. The NFL included the PR effect when they made the business decision regarding his suspension. It’s a storm in a teacup.
Yet professional football coaches seem to think he can. For the record, I think they are wrong about Vick. I don’t think he is good enough to be an NFL quarterback. But I certainly don’t see an issue with him inspiring people.
I’m not inviting him over for dinner. I’m watching him on TV playing football. If people care sufficiently about this, viewing of the games will drop, NFL and team profits will drop, and it will be considered a mistake. But you know what, that ain’t going to happen. Ray Lewis lied to the cops to defend murderers - a significantly worse offense than what Vick did, and Baltimore fans still love him. And next season, there won’t be anywhere near the degree of outrage when Stallworth comes back. After all, he only killed a person not dogs.
Why drug test then? Fairness? Allow all athletes to use whatever drugs they choose.:rolleyes:
Again, an athlete is someone who does physical feats. He can be an unemployed athlete. The Eagles are making him an NFL quarterback – a position the NFL has explicitly held up to be that of a role model in their public service campaigns. So if it’s horseshit, it’s the NFL’s horseshit, not mine.
.
Apart from the fact I kind of agree with that…
Do you really not see a difference? Let em lay it out. One is connected to football, one isn’t.
One is a message sent to fans “take these harmful drugs and be good enough to be a pro.” The other is “be good enough to be a pro and in a completely unconnected event be enough of a little shit to torture animals.”
It’s a ridiculous comparison, and doesn’t look any better because you add a roll eyes smiley after it.
And yet the NFL, a phemoninally successful business machine has decided to allow him back to its league after a further suspension. And they are going to be proved right - viewing figures won’t drop at all. Attendance at games will be unaltered. Merchandising won’t be affected in the slightest.
There are wife beaters, child abusers, drunk drivers and all sorts of other lowlives in the NFL. I’m not going to get all uppity because someone who was cruel to animals and served federal time for it is allowed back into the league.
Killing dogs and enjoying them ripping each other apart is sick. He can say whatever his PR people tell him to, but he is callous. I am not a fan . I used to kind of be ,because I loved to watch his athleticism. But he revealed a part of him that I can never reconcile.
So then, you’ve retracted your previous?:
As far as my rolleyes smiley, I don’t think I’ve ever used it, and wish now that I hadn’t. Cool? 
Vick has a couple kids. I wonder how he explains it to them.
To the extent that I would have assumed it was bloody obvious, yes.
An athlete is a “role model” or example as far as athleticism. What he is not is a role model or example for his non-athletics related activities.
Tom Cruise being a total whack job doesn’t affect how I view his movies. I don’t expect him to be a role model to my children.
Well, for those who are displeased with the Vick situation, you can always vote with your wallet. I’ve emailed the Eagles’ sponsors and will not spend money on their products/services.
My wife works for an non-profit animal welfare organization. I am on the board of a different non-profit animal welfare organization. I am not stating those to make my opinion more or less valuable than anyone else’s. That said, I welcome Michael Vick back into football and, yes, as a potential role model.
Naturally I am completely appalled and disgusted by dog fighting and by Vick’s involvement in it. But I also believe in second chances and I also believe people can change. And I sincerely believe that Michael can serve as a role model for this kind of redemption. I hope he can use his second chance and his public platform to teach kids and others about animal welfare. I do like to think he has learned. He has spent a lot of time with the Humane Society over the past couple of years, and that experience likely has changed his attitude.
Now of course I may be totally naive, a tiger doesn’t change its stripes, etc. But I think it deserves a chance to work. This is an opportunity, let’s embrace it and see if Vick can make it right.
This is a cute little “gotcha” but I think you realize exactly what I meant. Your comment holds absolutely no water, regardless. You said yourself Vick has a right to make a living, how can you reconcile that with demanding or even insinuating that he doesn’t have a right to make a good living? Where is the distinction? He either has a right to make a living, a right which should have absolutely no regard to the type of living, or he doesn’t have a right to make a living at all. The truth, of course, is that there is no legally enforced lower class in America.
Vick could very easily have proclaimed he didn’t do anything wrong, he never should have gone to prison, and he doesn’t have to change at all. He could have violated his (short, okay, that somehow matters to you) parole, which many parolees do. He could have refused the help of anyone. He could have scoffed at the Humane Society. He has conducted himself of late with humility and apology, and taken every possible correct step on the path to changing his life and becoming a good person. He has earned the right to ask the public for their forgiveness.
I know, I mean, he committed a crime! Certainly you or I have never committed a crime! String him up! Make him eat gruel for the rest of his life! He should never work again! You’re precious, don’t ever change!
I didn’t even say he doesn’t have the right to make a good living. I said I don’t think he’s done anything to demonstrate that he should be given a shot at playing in the NFL again.
He did exactly that until all of his codefendants rolled over on him. You’re right that he has not proclaimed his innocence since he was released from jail this spring. Do you think he deserves a prize for that?
My point is that he’s been on good behavior out of jail for less than a month. This impresses me less than, say, if he’d been out of jail with no problems for a year.
True, although I point out that it’s in his financial best interests to do so.
Yes. For almost a month now, he has said and done the right things. Surely asking for him to continue doing that a full month, let alone perhaps a few months, would be simply inhumane. Let’s give him a few million dollars and see what happens.
He’s got every right in the world to ask for forgiveness. I question whether or not he deserves a complete and total pardon and a few million dollars after a month.
All crimes are equal, I agree.
This is a lazy false dichotomy, but I’m sure you know that. I never said I was opposed to him working or eating, and I never said he had to suffer for the rest of his life. I said the exact opposite, in fact. Of course, it’s easier to caricature somebody’s position than argue with it, and it’s hard to resist temptation.
Anyway, I said earlier that he has every right to a living and that if he demonstrated real change, I’d probably be fine with him coming back to football. While he has said the right things so far, I think it has to be acknowledged that he’s being carefully managed by advisers and agents who are making sure he says and does the right things so he can get back into football, and also get out of bankruptcy. So from my standpoint, it’s hard to know if he is sorry or if he is saying something he knows he is expected to say so he can get something he wants. I don’t care for lip service.
Wow, some great responses to this, Dopers. Sorry i haven’t gotten back till now.
For me, it works like this. Is it a great move for the Eagles to take Vick? I say, YES. He’ll make a great variable on a lot of different plays, and McNabb-- who will probably be hurt AGAIN (It’s a Philly tradtion)-- will have a great backup.
HOWEVER, should Vick be allowed back at all? NO! NO! NO!
This was not a momentary lapse of reason, this was not punching a person when he had a bad day, this was a side business that he had to work at and IIRC, he was the bank on the dog fighting ring. He used his dollars from the NFL to buy and run this???
He was gonna go someplace, and I was planning to boo all season long, and a 1 in 32 chance lands him on my team. Grrr, Well, let the barking begin!
Second chances happen to very few people, even fewer in a small organization like the NFL. Vick better count his blessings. Let’s not forget, he fucks up once-- just once, he’s got nothing to fall back on. I hope this puppy lover learns the play book.
If he’s qualified to play in the league (which he is), and if he’s eligible to play in the league (which he is), and if the owners collude to keep him out, or even if each owner individually decides to keep him out, based on the fact that he’s a convicted felon, that’s discrimination.
Besides, given the choice between an unconvicted landscaper and a convicted murderer cardiologist, who would you pick to perform your open-heart surgery?
Vick has the goods to play somewhere in the NFL, and the NFL is a job like any other.
None of this has anything to do with the fact that I think what he admitted to doing is reprehensible.
Societally, you HAVE to maintain the possibility that everyone can come back from their sins. Otherwise, why try? If all Vick is doing is flipping burgers, and that’s all he’ll ever be permitted to do, what incentive does he have to stay straight?
Vick is saying what his lawyers and PR people have put in his mouth. I think when he is retired he will go back to dog fighting. I can not understand what the appeal is, but someone who actually enjoyed watching dogs tear each other apart, is unreachable. They steal neighborhood dogs and use them to train pits. They determine whether the dog is mean enough by how easily it rips apart a persons beagle. They don’t want to risk hurting their champions.
He is eligible because the commissioner deemed him eligible again. Had Goodell come to a different decision, it would not be any kind of illegal discrimination, it would be a ruling on eligibility that Goodell is empowered to make. As I said, Vick does not have some kind of right to play pro football.
There are no non-murdering cardiologists left competing for the job? What happened? Did they all get murdered? 
I agree, and I think he’s as deserving of that opportunity as anyone else. When someone ‘sins,’ I think the prudent way for that to work is that after they admit they have done something wrong, they earn your trust over time and eventually regain all or most of the standing they once had. If you immediately grant them all the rights and trappings they used to have, you are pretty much asking to be taken for a sucker, and I don’t think it sets a great example either. I’m okay with him returning to the NFL if he acts like a decent human being for a while outside of jail. His sentence ended less than a month ago, so I don’t think he’s done that. All we know about him, honestly, is that he’s capable of not breaking the law for about a month while he is looking for a way to make millions and pay off his creditors by getting a new job in the NFL.
Apparently you think he’s an even shittier human being than I do, because you think that if he’s not paid millions of dollars to play in the NFL, he’s going back to a life of crime for sure. (Even if the NFL and AFL avoided him, I don’t think he’s going back to dogfighting - he’s broke and all his friends are still in jail.)
For the record, though, I never said he should flip burgers for the rest of his life. I said I think it would be better for all concerned - possibly even Vick - if he had been asked to do more than ‘comply with terms of your parole for four weeks’ before being fully reinstated (Goodell will reinstate him completely long before week six) and given a new contract. “Flipping burgers” was one item on a list of a few hypothetical jobs I said he could do for a while acting like a decent human being for a little while before being given millions of dollars to play football again. I did not sentence him to a life of menial labor.
Does someone think that pro athletes are better citizens because they make a lot of money ? Does him playing football mean he will go straight and narrow? He was the highest paid player in football and was killing dogs for fun and business. Money does not give character. Sometimes it reveals it.