If Saruman is a Maiar - the most powerful of the 5 sent to Middle-Earth, even - shouldn’t he be a little more difficult to kill?
All he had was his throat slit and he dies. From a mortal. It seemed kind of… well, pathetic.
On the other hand, did he lose a lot of his powers when Gandalf became the White (thus stripping Saruman of the title, I assume?), leaving him able to be killed so easily?
Wow, that was a little convoluted… I think you get the idea, though.
His powers were taken from him along with his staff (save for his powers to daunt and pursuade), then his mortal body was slain and his spirit was refused return to Valinor.
My memory is failing (having only read LOTR once), apparently. Who took his staff/powers?
His powers were taken from him along with his staff (save for his powers to daunt and pursuade), then his mortal body was slain and his spirit was refused return to Valinor.
WTF? The hamsters ate my post and reposted my first post? Gandalf took his staff and cast him from the order.
IIRC, Gandalf split his staff and cast him out of the order after the Ents whupped-ass on Orthanc.
From the essay “The Istari” in Unfinished Tales:
I take the statement “they did not die” to mean that they would not die of old age, but it certainly sounds like all of the Istari could be killed by violence.
Incidentally, regarding the death of Saruman in the movies (and I’ll spoiler tag this since it involves a change in the plot from the books):
There are rumours that Saruman will be killed during or just after the attack on Isengard and Orthanc by the Ents. This makes sense, considering that the Scouring of the Shire will not be a part of the films - Saruman doesn’t really get up to much between his downfall and the SOTS, so he may as well be killed off sooner rather than later.
Which would put them in league with the Elves, who also were immortal unless they suffered a violent death.
OH NO! Erroneous, that is my favorite part of the LOTR! Such a beautiful and sad rip off of Odessus’ return to Ithaca. Arrgh!
Gandalf died and returned to Valinor (Deux ex Tolkien) and returned as Gandalf The White - essentially rendering Saruman a non-Wizard.
The Vala certainly had the ability to stomp out Maia (even Elves killed Balrogs). Saruman, like Sauron, was a very powerful Maia. Yet the Vala themselves had sent the Wizards (Istari) (and vested some power in them) to Middle Earth.
Gandalf gives Saruman a chance to redeem himself as a Maia. Yet his fate is like Sauron’s - blown to the wind.
Morgoth is still exiled - yet Tolkien foretold that the End of Times has Morgoth escaping and - get this - Turin battles him. Stay tuned. 
I have a question, I’ve read Lotr and the Silmarilion several times. Now I am not able to remember anywhere in which it is said that Saruman was not allowed to return to valinor after his demise. Can someone please tell me where did you get that from?
Also I can’t believe “the scourging of the shire” is not a part of the third film. It’s the part I love the most.
Saruman could have avail’d himself to sail West after his staff was broken - though there’d be some sort of punishment perhaps. Yet his contributions before he was corrupted were substantial. He chose the road to ruin and went down it full bore.
I hadn’t heard ‘Scouring of The Shire’ wouldn’t be part of the film. Though I guess from a dramatic POV, it makes sense to wind things up with Aragorn becoming King and marrying Arwen.
And roll the credits when Gandalf, Bilbo, Frodo & Co sail West.
I’m disappointed if the scouring of the Shire is excluded from the film. It seems to me that one of the major themes of LotR is that the ultimate confrontation with evil is NOT the great powerful magnificent Sauron, but the nasty slinking petty Gollum. And similarly, Saruman’s ultimate evil is a nasty slinking petty dispicable creature. Thus, the scouring of the Shire repeats the theme of Mount Doom… and it will be a shame if it’s dropped.
I don’t know if the scouring of the Shire will appear in the film or not, but I do know they casted an actor to play Ted Sandyman.
From ROTK, The Scouring of the Shire:
“…about the body of Saruman a grey mist gathered, and rising slowly to a great height like smoke from a fire, as a pale shrouded figure it loomed over the Hill. For a moment it wavered, looking to the West; but out of the West came a cold wind, and it bent away, and with a sigh dissolved into nothing.”
I interpret that as a big No Way from the Valar.
Another question - if the Balrogs (apparently more than one?) were Maiar, why did they seem so… well… impotent compared to other Maia?
Also, what was their position in the hierarchy? Were they to Morgoth as the Wizards were to the Valar?
I could swear I’d specifically heard that the Scouring of the Shire WOULD be in the movie.
i too would think it a shame is the cleansing of the shire were left out. My theory is that it WILL be in, after all, that would explain some of the images Frodo sees in the Water Mirror in Lothlorien.
Granted they could be just generic “destruction” scenes, but they DO show scenes of orcs in rows in what appears to be Mordor, and other scenes which apparently correspond to things that actually happen, and it would be consistent that all of these images appear in the movie.
On the other hand, “some things which have not yet come to pass” could mean that not ALL of them WILL come to pass, but I doubt it.
If the SOTS is left out, I will be disappointed, but if they actually SHOW Sharky dying an alternate way, it will grate on me even more than my biggest peeve about the FOTR movie:
“and the ring was found by a creature called Gollum”…
all together now…:smack: :smack: (sorry for the hijack)
True, but you really have to be really nitpicky to get really mad there. Fine, so the ring was not found by Gollum but by his friend when Gollum was still known as Smeagol, and then Smeagol killed whatshisname for the ring.
This is one of those times where I think it was a reasonable change to make to fit the needs of a movie. Sort of like putting the first part of Two Towers at the end of FotR. I’ve always thought it was a bit of a disjunction between the two books the way it is, so I think it works well for a movie especially.