One honest question, why all the Jay Cutler love? Not that he’s not a fine quarterback, and I haven’t seen much of him in games (Vandy, oddly enough, isn’t on TV a whole lot), but I hadn’t even heard of him before senior bowl week, and now people are talking about him going in the top 5? His stats are fine, but he feasted on teams like Kentucky, Richmond, Mississippi, and Middle Tennesse State, while quality competition, like LSU and even Arkansas made him look like a 6th rounder at best, and his Senior Bowl stats were awful. To me, he’s got Kyle Boller written all over him.
why the cutler love?
well, some are VERY high on him now. some are saying that he’s the best quarterback in the draft, but i don’t know if i’d go that far.
i will tell you why i dig him as a lions fan.
joe harrington. i’m tired of having this guy put my emotions in the grinder. if he’s going to do it, then dammit, put it together now. i want to see a solid young prospect be there behind him, though, and cutler fits the bill.
he’s got some intangibles. he benched more reps than any RUNNING BACK (save one), he’s pretty smart, he’s got the second best arm in the draft (i think he was second by 1 mph, if i remember correctly). he’s got the gunslinger mentality. he’s done all the practices, all the combine work, all the games, and hasn’t dodged a single test. we in detroit idolize two players: barry sanders and brett favre. we’ve had a barry, and we’re completely convinced there will never be one, although we hope that if there is, we get him again. we see cutler as a young favre, maybe even favre light. we’re all about the blue collar mentality 'round here (as i’m sure many in the rust belt area are).
i’ll level with you. during the year, i looked at his stats and wasn’t blown away either. and i certainly do see how you can say he’ll be the next kyle boller, but i can see kyle boller making steps, though. i can’t say that about joe harrington. we need something new, and that’s to get next year’s quarterback solidified.
Well crap, compared to Joey, Cutler looks absolutely great. I see the similarities though, “He’s extremely intelligent. He’s a very accurate passer and has a great feel of the pocket. He sees the field very well and understands both offense and defense. That allows him to have an understanding and quick recognition of what defensive schemes are, and then he has the ability to come up with the big play when needed. He’s elevated his ball carrying to improve his release. Then, he’s a great leader; he’s charismatic and has the energy to encourage his teammates.” That’s how Joey Harrington was described before he was drafted.
I can understand taking a chance on a guy who has the arm strength, intelligence, and toughness, but who hasn’t put up stellar numbers, won games, or played against good competition. But not in the top 10, hell, not even in the first round. With Brees, Kitna, McKown, etc. still available as free agents, I wouldn’t waste a top 10 pick on a guy who hasn’t shown much in real football games.
And, as a Packer fan, I wouldn’t be too sure you’d want another Favre. In his prime, he was a great quarterback if your team was lousy or if you could reign in his gunslinging. He just makes too many mistakes, and will cost you almost as many games as he’ll win you.
Besides, aren’t the Lions contractually required to draft a wide receiver?
oh, trust me. i remember what they said about joseph.
yes, compared to harrington, cutler is an upgrade (i suppose, even as a rookie).
brees is coming off some nasty surgery, and i don’t know if i’d want my chances tied to him. kitna is supposedly going to be chased by the bengals again because of palmer’s injury. if we get josh mccown, we might as well stick with harrington.
personally, i’d rather take the rookie and see what we get with him. kitna, assuming we got him, wouldn’t be a solution. he’d just be a stopgap until the solution comes along. brees is a posible solution, but that shoulder is problematic, much like pennington’s. i wouldn’t mind getting a pennington as a backup, as a matter of fact, i hear the lions are interested in bringing him in as a backup for a year. i like that move a lot.
yes, i would want another favre. yeah, he’s got all the intangibles, but now that he’s getting up there in age, he’s suffering from the same thing marino did when he got there too…it’s called “stuck-around-too-longitis”. they’re past their primes. they can’t throw balls in the spots they once could. their bodies know it, but they still think they can. as a result, they’d kill their teams because of it. marino quit when he realized he couldn’t do it. favre just needs to learn to tone it down sometimes. he and barry sanders were the two players i’d NEVER bet against, especially on monday night and especially especially at home.
i liked the three recievers in three straight years, personally. i’m willing to argue that, in the end, it’ll be a good thing. see, after getting mike williams (who i figured as a slot type reciever), they’d run a lot more three wide sets with a single back and tight end (with marcus pollard) and have a successful offense because kevin jones is a monster and would keep the defense honest. well, mariucci realized (all too late) that his west coast offense didn’t work with his personnel. instead of …god forbid…changing (gasp!), he went down with the ship. the lions have the pieces in place to be a good offense. they’re about 14 million under the cap and if they can pick up a good offensive lineman (or an entire line…i’m not picky) then things shouldn’t be too bad. the problem with the offense has been change. every year, there’s a different line, a different coach, a “different philosophy”. christ, how do you evaluate any success when everything changes? pick something and stick with it. of course, that’s the problem with the motor city kitties right now.
i don’t predict a massive leap forward next year, but there will be progress. if there isn’t, i sware to GOD i’m rooting for the saints…or someone else…ANYONE else…i just can’t take it anymore…in my 24 years of living…
…shush.
The perception at the Senior Bowl, from practices and the game, was that he was far and away the best QB there. The coaching staffs fell in love with him. He made an impressive showing at the skills competitions which is always a nice PR move. Vandy, while not high profile, gets tons of credit because they run a pro-style offense against some of the best NCAA defenses. This sets him apart from other quasi-no-names from the past like McNair, Pennington, Roethlisberger and Culpepper.
This article talks about it in some detail.
I’m sure the scouts and people who have actually seen him play have a much better idea what he can and cannot do, so I’m not to be trusted. It’s just that, looking at his stats against good defenses, he’s not that impressive. Against Georgia (#2 pass D in the SEC) he was 53% completion percentage, 174 yards, with 1 td, and 1 int. Against LSU (#3 pass D in the SEC) he had a 34% c.p., 113 yds, 0 td, 2 int. Against Ole Miss. (#4), it was 59, 314, 0 td 0 int, and against S. Carolina (#5) it was 55% 339, 1 td, 1 int. And in the Senior Bowl he was 6 for 19, 69 yards, 1 td, 1 int. He got to fatten his stats with a 5 td performance against Kentucky (dead last in SEC), a 3 td performance against the Vols (3rd from last), and 3 tds against Richmond.
Not the resume of a guy I’d expect to be worthy of a first round pick, but, as you know, I suck at prognosticating.
You may very well be right. I’m sure plenty of “experts” and NFL GMs will agree with you.
For my money, and I’ve outlined this in threads here before, you cannot take NCAA stats and performances as a clear indicator for future success. If you read this thread you’ll see a few of us get into a discussion about how relevant college game statistics and success is compared to combine type measurements, and how it compares to the MLB philosophy.
On the whole, I trust the NFL system. With a few major exceptions, the guys who wow scouts at the Senior Bowl, combine and workouts tend to become quilty players. Players with great college stats can go either way, and players with mediocre stats can be great or awful. NCAA games certainly need to be a factor, but I’d take the other stuff as being more valuable since it removes most of the uncertain variables created by teamates and opponents.
In the end, I wager its simply a personal preference and it’d be hard to prove either philosophy is right.
Ex Senior Bowl MVP’s like Cade McNown, Bobby Hoying, and Dameuyung Craig are probably somewhere knitting a quilt, so I guess you’re right. 
Oh, I agree. Talent evaluation is extremely tough to do, but I would favor college stats against quality teams over a week long mini-training camp any day. Chad Pennington and Cade McNown comes to mind as qb’s who rocked at the Senior Bowl, only to be horribly overrated in the NFL.
But to each their own. Here’s hoping the Bears get another McNown to put a smile on my face.
Sadly, I recall that most scouts felt that McNown was far below par at the combine and workouts. The Senior Bowl was certainly big for him, as well as his UCLA stats. Additionally he had substandard size and strength for a NFL QB. I fear that the Bears may have been the only franchise disoriented enough to draft him in the first round. Read his Wikipedia entry and you’ll see that he is a good candidate to support my argument. Great college career against quality opponents but was lacking at the combine.
On another note (since i have an unhealthy facsination with the draft), I’d like to share this article about Vince Young. It does a better job of articulating my reason for predicting him being drafted low than I can.
This is probably one too many posts one this particular subject, but what I’m saying is that the above isn’t true the majority of the time. The guys you’re calling the ends are X and Z. The inside/slot guy or tight end is Y. See the link above (one is now broken, it appears) or the PDF here, or any of this guy’s diagrams (there’re a few about halfway down), or even a Wikipedia page:
Not all the most in-depth sources, but then again I’m making an appeal to common usage, so, uh, yeah. I’ve always understood it as X and Z on the outside, Y on the inside, and what little there is to be found on Google seems to all agree with that. This is all apparently very important to me.
Also, for what it’s worth, my recollection is that Cade McNown was actually regarded as a top 20 guy all around. I remember that Ron Jaworski raved about him, and had him ahead of McNabb and Couch in his personal rankings (pissed me off, as I liked both). Weren’t the Bucs supposed to be all over him? I dunno. I think quarterback is the least workout-friendly position, because there are so many guys that can make all the throws. If you took all the quarterbacks currently starting in the NFL and put them all through some kind of body-scrambler, I don’t think you’d be able to easily pick out Tom Brady and Peyton Manning from the rest if you could only watch their footwork and them throwing to one guy. Obviously you could check off certain things – arm strength, accuracy on different throws, bla bla – but what would reliably separate Brady from Brees from Brooks from Boller, if you only get a half hour? If anything, the Plummers and Brookses might come out ahead. Whereas, if you did the same things with all the defensive ends, or receivers, or DBs, you’d at least know who had the special gifts. Well, that’s Freeney… and there’s Torry Holt… holy crap it’s Ed Reed. With any other position you really have to place faith in what the guy does in front of you, because those positions aren’t 85% mental, but I think, if you’re talking about a quarterback, and I can only look at one or the other, I’d take his college games over the workouts.
Um, OK, never mind. I think I was reading you wrong. You’re saying the guys on the line of scrimmage are X and Y, which is true if there’s a flanker outside the Y. In that case we’re both saying the same thing:
X (offensive line) Y
Z
Right? I was just noting that if the flanker moves inside the end on that side,
X (offensive line) Z
Y
the guy on the line of scrimmage isn’t the Y anymore. I swear to god, I’m done now.
That pretty much gets it. Systems vary, but the ones I played in would have had the two scenarios you indicate lettered like this:
X (offensive line) Y
Z
and
X (offensive line) Y
Z
Minor difference, but that’s basically what I was pointing out.
Well, technically in the three wide formation you detailed the Z is still the Flanker, which is not the slot position. Most of the confusion I’m sure has to do with you saying flanker (slot), which is confusing.
In two wide receiver sets where both are on the same side, the Z (flanker) receiver becomes the slot as you detailed in the last one, but that’s because there’s nobody on the other side.
Z = Flanker = split wide on the strong side
X = Split End = split wide on the weak side
Y = slot or Tight End
Depends on you definition of slot I suppose. In my experience, the slot is usually the area between the split end and the OL. Not always refering to a player. You could accurately say that in the 2nd example the Flanker (Z) is lined up in the slot.
Some people use Flanker and Slot interchangibly. This probably creates confution. I’ve even heard people refer to a wing back as a slot.
Take everything I’ve said and delete the term slot and I think it stands.
Haven’t heard much from any Minnesotans around here, but this report about Daunte Culpepper indicates that he will certainly not be back in purple this season. Seems like the QB market is uncommonly soft this season. New Orleans, Tennessee, Oakland, New York Jets, Miami and Arizona seem to the the only teams looking for guys, and half those guys will probably address it in the draft. Culpepper could be losing a pretty hefty chunk of change.
Yeah, the Jets will certainly be looking in the draft instead of free agency now that they re-signed Penny, which meets their “seriously injured veteran starter” quota.
So, any news? The owner deadline was 20 minutes ago…
Regarding my rant above about a coaches cap, from what I can gather the small market teams are complaining that the current revenue sharing doesn’t pay for ALL the player salaries. So really, the owners are whining that their revenue isn’t pure profit. That’s pathetic.
But that doesn’t change my opinion that they need a coaches cap. If they can’t loosen the purse strings enough to pay for the players, then they certainly aren’t going to be throwing around big money on coaches.
agreed. they need a coach’s cap.
the nfl’s union is the weakest union ever. a sport like that and no guaranteed contracts? are you kidding me?
one thing is for certain, though…they seem to think they’re above the nhl in regards to what a strike can do to a sport. they’re not. jerry jones has already said (i heard it from my dad, so i don’t know if it’s very accurate) that he’d turn to replacement players. if they have a labor problem, they’re killing themselves and all deserve worse than what the nhl got…and that was near-termination.
DEAL!
No cite yet, but here’s a quote from the giants.com boards:
The reason they don’t have guaranteed contracts is precisely because it’s “a sport like that.” Way too many career ending injuries to guarantee contracts. Way too many players on a roster to handle even a few extra dead contracts from guys who left the game years ago. Way too short an average career length to guarantee contracts.
Are you young? The NFL is indeed above the NHL. They’ve brought in scabs before, and it didn’t hurt the popularity one iota. The only person I’ve ever seen derisively discount the Redskins strike-shortened Superbowl win is me.
Oh, now that all our teams have an extra $10 million to spend, what big name free agents do you covet?
For the Giants, it’s a no-brainer: LaVar Arrington. He has said publicly that he wants to stay in the NFC East, and that he specifically couldn’t see playing for the Cowboys. That leaves two teams, the Giants and Eagles. The Eagles just today signed Shawn Barber at Arrington’s position. That leaves only the Giants.
I expect the deal will get worked out and announced early Friday morning. Gonna be a GOOD year for Big Blue, by far the most watched team in the NFL.
Go Giants!
Here’s the cite:
NFL owners approve six-year CBA extension
One interesting tidbit from the article:
From my read, it basically looks like the flat-tax debate, and they’ve gone from the equivalent of a flat tax to a system more similar to what the taxpayers have. I hindsight, I can’t say I feel as much sympathy for the big-market teams as I did 20 minutes ago.