I’m curious as to what this means.
I’m assuming it’s a joke cuz of the smiley, but I don’t know what the joke actually is?
What’r we lookin at here SFG?
Lol - I went to school there and am still the black sheep - course, it doesn’t help when my 3 brothers are: a youth pastor, a church elder, and a missionary. I’m the divorced former church pianist who now has a bf she sleeps with regularly and has no plans to marry.
You were surprised that there are people on either side of a divisive issue that are closeminded? Really? I’m kind of jealous.
Sex involves at least two people, so, yes, cuddling with the right person could absolutely be better than masturbation. But cuddling, while great, is never going to be a true substitute for actual sex–PIV, oral, manual, anal, whatever. There are times where you’re going to prefer cuddling to sex, but IMO and IME it’s absolutely innacurate to tell someone *who actually wants sex at that point *that cuddling is just as good.
That perhaps you have some kind of magical virgin magnet powers. Like a unicorn, or something. Only presumably without the hooves.
My wife and I definitely didn’t wait until we were married. I wouldn’t marry a virgin under any circumstances. My experience is that virgins aren’t much fun in bed and don’t have any experience “operating the equipment.” They learn after a while, obviously. I feel that if my partner has had some experience and finds my sexual abilities satisfactory then the relationship has a chance. If I’m not working for her then things will come to an end rather quickly. Having said that, there is a happy medium for “experience.” I wouldn’t want to be with a woman that has taken on the entire Pacific Fleet but she needs to know what she wants and be able to decide if I fit the bill, so to speak.
Lol…if I were attracting virgins like unicorns…pretty sure they’d be guys 
Well, you’re not doing a thing for me.
Oh, I’ve had orgasms from just cuddling/kissing/having my girlfriend tell me she loves me. (and she tells me that the same thing has happened to her)
It’s NOT the same true, but it can be an OK subsituite if you want to wait. If you honestly truely love someone that way, but still want to wait, then cuddling (and just being with someone who you madly insanely love) can be a decent subsitute for those who want to wait.
I’m not " offering it up" as a subsistute for someone who’s in a committed loving realtionship BUT it can be a decent subsitute in some cases. I’m not advocating it…My only feeling towards sex is that it should be between two people who are in a loving comitted realtionship with each other.
I do think there are people who are really immature about sex (eg they are all " Hee hee hee. I gave my boyfriend a blowjob in public!" or they have Spur Posse/Dumb Fratboy attitudes towards sex. But that’s a whole nother thread.
As a Gay man, if I had waited until I could get legally married to have had sex, I would still be one very, very horny, sad dude.
Not saying everyone should whore around like I did in my early 20’s to my early 30’s, but hey - I have no regrets whatsoever!
Having sex is really great…wish I had even been more of a slut.
I mean that seriously - you are only in your youth/prime for a certain amount of time - as long as you practice safe sex, go for it. I cannot recall a single friend ever saying, “Gee, wish I hadn’t had so much sex when I was younger.” To the contrary, most smile and say, “Those were the days…”
BTW, finally did meet the man of my dreams - and we are going on 29 years together at the end of February and still happily in love - and trust me when I say neither one of us were virgins when we first met.
Actually, this has been a fairly restrained conversation for the topic. I mean, nobody’s said sex is as necessary to them as oxygen or accused the women in couples who wait of being manipulative and withholding or anything.
I know what you mean, though. What has always bemused me about it is how folks will go on about how people who wait are placing waaaayyy too much importance on sex…and then talk about how vitally important sex is and how if you don’t like the same stuff sexually your marriage is DOOMED! DOOMED, I SAY! I, for one, am glad there are people out there who don’t put too much importance on sex. :dubious:
The speculation that people who don’t think sex is such a huge deal are so boring in bed that they can’t imagine people liking anything but missionary piv is a new one, though. That speculation is about as accurate as someone speculating that the people who are vehemently anti-waiting are all sex addicts–there are surely some cases out there where it’s true, but in the vast majority it’s just total bs. Intentionally insulting bs, at that.
The thing about testing sexual compatibility before marriage is that the libido is a very fluid entity, so it’s not really a great predictive tool. Our sex life at 25 didn’t really much resemble our sex life at 20, and neither terribly resembled our sex life at 30. Frequency, duration, type…it’s all changed multiple times over the last 15 years as our lives and bodies have changed, and I expect it will change plenty more over the next 50 years. Our individual changes haven’t and won’t always be in synch with each other, and that’s okay because we have a strong enough bond that we’re both willing to work on some sort of compromise that will satisfy us both.
That’s clearly directed at me, and it’s a complete re-writing of what I said. If you’ll do me the favor of scrolling up, you’ll see that I said that people who think that it’s impossible for two people to be sexually incompatible are only interested in missionary PIV and expect that everyone else enjoys it to the same extent. Nothing in there about “people who don’t think sex is such a huge deal.”
I may have been misremembering exactly what you said since I read that part of the thread a day or two ago, but my impression was that you were discussing people who thought it was rare to be insurmountably sexually incompatible to the point of destroying an otherwise good relationship. In all fairness, why would sexual incompatibility alone destroy a good relationship if it wasn’t such a huge deal?
Assuming, of course, we’re talking about garden-variety incompatibilities like differences in desired frequency or kinkiness. If we’re talking about incompatibilities in orientation, or paraphilias, that’s a whole other kettle of fish. The former can typically be worked through with enough love and understanding and generosity toward each other, and if you don’t have that, you don’t have much chance of making it through even if you’re totally sexually compatible. The latter…well I don’t really see where having sex before marriage is going to make any difference, honestly. It’s not like those sorts of desires just sneak up on you.
It’s so hard to scroll up eight posts, isn’t it? Here you go, now you can read it again without having to strain yourself:
You seem to have some kind of misconception about the attitudes of people who have sex before marriage. There are two entirely different kinds of “important” going on here. You have people who prefer to wait for marriage, who believe that sex is such an important part of the bond between them and their partner that they only want it to take place once that partnership is permanent. Then you have people who are willing to have sex outside of that kind of committed, permanent relationship, who may view it as something that is still saved for serious relationships, or who may view it as simply an enjoyable activity that they don’t need any particular connection with the person to share, other than mutual attraction.
For the sex-before-marriage camp, sex can be “important” enough that you want to share it with someone before you commit to spending the rest of your life with them, while not “important” in the way that it matters that you “save” it. I guess the disctinction I’d make is between ***important ***and sacred. In this manner, sex could be viewed like, say, political beliefs. No one would argue that the political beliefs of your potential spouse aren’t important, but they’re not sacred: we don’t wait until marriage to reveal how we feel about, say, taxes and the death penalty. (Well, mostly we don’t.) Surely you could see how, if that were the case, you’d have instances of people unable to continue their marriage because they found that their politics were completely incompatible with those of their new spouse?
Nowhere have I said that every couple who doesn’t have sex before marriage is doomed to be sexually incompatible. Many people end up being perfectly fitted for each other; others will have to work at it, but succeed. I’m simply pointing out that it is entirely possible for two people to be sexually incompatible, either to the extent that it’s unresolvable or having one or both partners simply unwilling to make adjustments, such that it would be ultimately fatal to the relationship. And thus, if you don’t believe that such an incompatibility is possible, you must be someone who only likes PIV missionary sex and can’t concieve of anyone enjoying anything else, such that an incompatibility might arise.
Further addition:
If it’s specifically the “PIV missionary” thing that’s bugging you, feel free to substitute any proclivity of your choosing. The point remains that anyone who thinks that there’s no way that two people could be sexually incompatible to the detriment of their marriage is entirely focused in on their particular preferences with no inkling that anyone else likes it any other way. It just happens to be my personal experience that it’s PIV missionary folks who tend to have that attitude. YMMV–if you know a lot of lesbians who enjoy BDSM who assume that everyone else is a lesbian who enjoys BDSM, certainly you may substitute them in.
Very true. Even for people who waited.
I’m curious though, don’t you think if both people discuss sex, their likes/dislikes, etc. that it would be enough to figure out if they would be compatible with each other? Just because a couple isn’t having sex, doesn’t mean they never discuss it.
Obviously, incompatibility is still a possibility, but I would think that with honest discussion upfront before getting naked, it would be much less of an issue. Even without having sex, you can generally figure out what another person’s sex drive is (AKA how often one is “in the mood”), and what they believe their preferences to be (even virgins might know if and what they want to experiment with). And if you’re already dating, you should be attracted to each other. So…with those factors, while incompatibility is always a possibility, wouldn’t it be extremely less so?
We did not wait.
Not really surprising since we weren’t allowed to get married until 2004.
There seems to be some confusion here. I’ve never said it was *likely *that two people who’ve never had sex will turn out to be *irreconcilably *sexually incompatible; simply that people who **deny the possibility **of such a thing ever happening have a very narrow view of the wide range that is possible with human sexuality. You have to pay attention to my caveats: seldom do I speak in absolutes, and a lot of the time when people here misunderstand me, it’s because they skimmed over an important qualifier on a sentence.
Hypothetical situation: A female virgin and a male virgin marry each other. They discover that the wife is unable to orgasm from PIV sex. The husband is unwilling to engage in manual or oral sex, whether for personal or religious reasons. Now, depending on the people involved, this could be something they just live with (especially if they both view sex as being primarily focused on procreation), or it could turn out to be a deal-breaker.
It seems to me it would be silly for anyone to assume it’s not a possibility at all. Even people who start out being highly compatible can morph into something with irreconcilable differences.
Whaaaaa?
Yes, it would seem silly. Which is why I couldn’t understand why anyone would object to what I posted, unless they completely misread it and had a knee-jerk reaction to the point they thought I was making instead of what I actually wrote.
Yeah, that was my reaction, too. Now I’m all curious if **AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet **and I mean different things by “cudding” or “orgasms” or if I’ve just been doing it wrong. 