When my husband and I go out to dinner, the waiter usually puts the bill in front of my husband. When we go out for lunch on a workday, it’s usually put in between us.
I’ve also noticed that many waiters pay more attention to the men vs. the women. Recently, my husband made a point of pointedly asking me if I’d like a refill, too, after the waitress turned to fetch my husband another beer without even looking at my drink. I don’t even know if they realize they’re doing it.
My friends who are waiters tend to agree the men tip a lot better than women and that older people tend to tip less than younger people. (Oh, and professional football players tend to not tip at all.)
We live in Dallas, and for what it’s worth, my husband and I notice that in Dallas they always put it between us but in small southern cities and towns, they give it to him. We think big cities have actual waiter training but less so in small towns.
So you feel like the tradition has persisted because women are greedy and like the man to pay, but you also understand that it makes you feel good, and respected, when you get to pay?
It feels good to give and feels good to receive, in all contexts. It’s not right to demand that someone else always pays in a particular situation, but it’s also not right to perpetually deny someone the opportunity to be generous.
They guy who always picks up the check no matter who offers to pay, and never lets anyone else be generous, that guy is an asshole–even though he prides himself on his generosity.
By the same token, I find it disrespectful when the waiter assumes the man that he has guessed as being oldest will pay.
I’m already at the age of invisibility. Going out to eat in all-invisible-women groups, so far the record has been four women being ignored by the maitre until another group came in, at which point the maitre adressed a man in that other group and was met with a chorus of “excuse! us!” and “uh, they were first”.
This reads like the Goofus and Gallant Guide to Proper Waitressing.
Incidentally, the past couple times we’ve gone out to eat, the waitstaff has put the check closer to my wife. Shockingly, I’ve still been able to walk out with my head held high, still feeling like a grown-ass man, and even offer a friendly smile to the waiter/waitress as I passed by.
Waitresses are not stupid. They can observe a lot by watching. First of all, they ask if the diners want separate bills, or all on one bill. If someone says all on one bill, the bill gets presented to the one who asserted that. If it is the policy to put it all on one bill, I would expect the waitress to judge by the body language which one seems to be the alpha-patron. That’s not hard to get right most of the time. It’s the one who chooses the wine, or who puts her coat on first. Or, you can wait until one of them goes to the bathroom, and give the bill to whomever is still at the table.
Greedy? That’s a rather strong word. More like it saves them a few bucks and fits in with what they really want the man to do, especially in the early stages of a relationship. I’ve heard more than once of women thinking less of a man if he takes her to dinner and then asks her to go Dutch, much less pay for everything. It’s sort of like the old saw about the way many women say they want sensitive men but then are put off when they actually find themselves with one.
Not in this context. It makes me feel good when the waitress looks me in the eye and smiles and thanks me, and that in turn makes me more inclined to be generous with the tip. The actual paying doesn’t make me feel good so much as not paying would make me feel bad.
No argument here. One of my best lifelong friends is a woman I met when she was 13 and I was 16. We’ve been friends ever since, and on occasion she likes to treat me to dinner or give me a gift and I’m always happy to accept. And I do the same for her.
I don’t know that I’d agree with this. Is a man really an asshole if he thinks he’s being kind and generous. More like mistaken, I’d say. Plus there are often things going on subliminally that come into play. If the guy is the family patriarch or company president or CEO, then matters of pride, ranking and matters of indebtedness can come into play. The guy in the leadership role may not want to become indebted or feel obliged to lesser members of the part, for a number of reasons, some petty and some legitimate. It’s also possible the guy who is insisting on paying is just going through a sort of ritual where he knows the people offering to pay can’t really afford it, and they know he knows it and they are just putting up a front to appear not to be taking it for granted that he was gonna pay.
In short, people and the situations they find themselves in can be and often are complicated, and the things they do can’t always be angrily dismissed by simple hot-button one-word accusations of things like greed or assholism. In fact they rarely can.
As the man, I get the bill quite often, especially when it’s just two of us. Usually, since I’m the one paying, the server was right to do so, even if they just guessed for sexist reasons. But I’d say at least 50% of the time now it’s either set in a neutral location or they ask who’s paying first. That happens more often when I’m eating with multiple people.
But what percentage of couples in restaurants are on early stage of relationship dates? I bet they are dwarfed by the number of couples that are either in a LTR or married.
Well, it makes me feel bad not to pay, too. Why shouldn’t it be the same for me?
Exactly. But it’s hard to do that in a cool ,chill, “no worries, I got this”, if you have to lunge across the table for the check. Putting the check in front of the man means a woman has to awkwardly ask if she can pay, instead of gracefully taking it on.
“He’s not an asshole, he just has to make it clear that he outranks everyone, especially lesser members” How is any of that “legitimate”?
If I’m the one asserting I want to pay, I’m not putting up a front. And can you imagine how you’d feel if you were at dinner and you realized another man had decided you couldn’t afford to pay for what you’d ordered? Would that not piss you off?
Sure. But I’m going to hold that insisting on always being the generous one is as much more more of a character flaw as being parasitical on your friends, and one that is often denied to women. For whatever reason, traditional-minded men often miss this.
My parents, and my aunts and uncles, grew up in the Great Depression. They were very proud of having climbed from poverty to middle class. This resulted in a lot of fighting over the bill at restaurants. The worst insult in their vocabulary was “freeloader”. Who paid for the meal, had the biggest manhood.
Today, I will often drive my mother to town to run errands or go shopping, and in return, she will take me to lunch. She always insists on paying. But she always insists that I be the one to give the money to the cashier. She thinks I should feel humiliated to be seen having a woman pay for the meal.
Regarding the patriarch/CEO scenario, there are lots of legitimate reasons why it’s best not to have subordinates behaving in ways that can appear to be trying to gain favor or make you indebted to them. It can create the impression that one is playing favorites or whose good will is for sale, and this then causes friction and [del]brown nosing[/del] jockeying for position among the subordinates themselves. Much better for the guy who calls the shots to not be seen as allowing himself to be maneuvered into anyone’s debt or giving excuse for others subsequently to think he’s playing favorites.
So what? A lot of people do put up a front though and it’s generally understood by everyone there what’s really going on. If you’re really wanting all that badly to be generous I’d think a simple word to the waitress to let you have the check would suffice. Why do so many people expect everyone to automatically behave contrary to convention or read their minds simply because it suits their politics?
In this kind of scenario we aren’t talking about random strangers. We’re talking about family or employers who already have a pretty good idea of their guests’ circumstances.
Probably this is because traditional-minded men aren’t always on the lookout to take offense or to assume the worst (and most insulting) motives in other people’s behavior.
Hah! My aunt, who passed away last year at almost 90, did the same thing. She’d also decide what she wanted and then would tell me so I could order it.
When I eat with my parents, they either put the bill in front of me or my dad. My mom’s the one who always pays.
However if my mom’s dad is eating with us, sometimes my mom or dad will ask for the bill when ordering (when asked if this is all on one bill) and they are pretty good about complying.
Yeah! To my mom, there are men’s jobs, and there are women’s jobs, and never the twain shall meet. She doesn’t mind if a man cooks or cleans house, but she doesn’t really trust him to do it properly. Anything electrical- or mechanical- or plumbing-related is simply Not In Her Job Description, and a gentleman would never ask a lady to do such a thing.
Motive isn’t what matters here, and I think that’s the fundamental disconnect. It sucks not to be allowed to be generous, to have to always be grateful instead of proud. The motive of the person you are always feeling grateful to isn’t what determines that. You may be sincerely grateful, and they may be sincerely generous. But it still sucks to have to be the grateful one all the time. Wouldn’t you hate that?
The “asshole” part comes in when someone won’t let go of the “benefactor” role even when asked. If someone tries to give you a gift and you refuse to take it, it’s condescending at best and often downright jerkish.
Do you really always let friends and relatives who make more than you pay for you? You never insist on paying even when the other person technically can afford it better than you? I mean, my sister’s household income is probably double mine, but I pay for the Starbucks half the time, and if she insisted on always paying, I’d avoid ever being in that situation with her again. And she understands that. She’d never refuse to let me buy her a cup of coffee.
My first thought was that I get presented with the check the majority of the time when dining with my wife. I didn’t trust my own judgement about this one, so I asked the Mrs. She stated most definitively that when the two of us dine together, the check is placed in front of me “the vast majority of the time”.
After considering this input, I decided it was because of my outward demeanor of quiet confidence, financial success, ability to command and provide superior examples to others with my behavior, along with my sartorial splendor and excellent sense in timeless fashion which exemplifies that I do things not ‘in style’, but with style.
The Mrs. believes it’s because I look older than her and am always signalling for the check so we can get out and go home where I can nap sans pants.
Oh Gawd, let’s not even get into the power-plays of different people at the table secretly telling the waiter at various times they want to pay…and the waiter has to decide who is getting the check (PSSssssst…its usually the youngest male who asked)
