Was Bush's bland Xian eulogy for Ford okay with you?

Psuedotriton, what part of “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.” don’t you understand?

Just because Bill Clinton was president of the United States doesn’t abridge his right to free exercise of religion, or freedom of speech. Congress can make no law doing so. Bill Clinton was free to go to church every day, to praise Jesus in public, to read from the Bible. The fact that we live in a secular state does not mean we demand our public officials be atheists, since that would violate “No religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States”

Exactly. If you passed a law that said, “Elected officials cannot talk about their faith”, THAT would be a violation of the constitution.

The state shall not create an ‘official’ religion. It shall not stop people from exercising their rights to engage in whatever faith they choose. Some people are taking the separation clause to mean that Christianity or any other faith should be eradicated from public debate, which is ridiculous.

If people interpreted the 2nd amendment as broadly, everyone would own missile launchers and there would be calls to censure politicians who say “guns are bad”.

You know, I think I was overreacting a tad. Some excellent points here have helped me to put this in perspective a bit better. Thanks.

Congrats. Not many people around here are given to admitting a mistake.

I put this OP in the same category as fundie Xtians whining over the “War on Christmas” or trying to install monuments to the Ten Commandments on the courthouse steps.

They latch onto non-issues that have the flavor of their cause so they can feel they are fighting the good fight. This is much easier than actively working for the cause they profess to believe, and yet passes the time in a suitably cause-focused manor.

Meh.

Good on ya.

Okay but make sure to read post number forty three.

-FrL-

And you make sure you read the post right above yours.

Oh. You’re that guy. This thread is not helping sell your book.

That wasn’t a Christian eulogy. It was barely a non-sectarian American Deist eulogy. I have boldfaced the entirety of any supernaturalist content below.

You’re unbelievable.

But points for getting off your high horse. Gracious thanks to Apollo, the Incarnate of True Perception, for the Arrows of Light that have opened thine eyes. :wink:

As I see it Gerald ford was a Christian who had a Christian burial,nothing that connects church and state.

I am always in wonder at Funerals etc. where Some person or Clergy is telling God what to do. Like giving peace to the decendents. I think God knows what to do with out being told.

I have been at graduations where the minister was saying,"Father this is a nice day and we are celebrating the step these young people are now taking,help them along the way. or bless this group etc. I do not thing a supreme being needs to be told what to do, just as a good father feeds his children without some one telling him what to do.
onavis

I guess my objection boils down to free advertising for a product I don’t use.

I see you’ve admitted that perhaps you’ve overreacted about this particular incident. What I think is an interesting related issue is how much elected officials can or should speak of their personal faith and the faith of their consituents in their public speeches. It isn’t always clear where the balancing act between the establishment clause, free sppech, and freedom of worship come in.
Personnally I think they can say whatever they want and let the ballots reflect how the voters feel about it.

What was advertised? And specifically how? Are there any other issues you would like elected officials nto to speak on?

Personally I would rather elected officials be as open and honest about who they are and what traditions or beliefs are advising theis decision making.

Hmmm. Who made the suit that W wore, I wonder? I sure would like to buy one!!! :stuck_out_tongue: :wink:

Btw, Foolsguinea, you forgot this one:

And when he put his hand on his family Bible to take the presidential oath of office, he brought grace to a moment of great doubt.

I think that’s really the bottom line. What PRR was saying before about whether or not a “fire & brimstone”-type talk would have been acceptable, I think that within the bounds of law it certainly would be. Within the bounds of what is smart politically is another matter.

Although I don’t think the “bland” tenor of this particular funeral was a put-on by any means. Episcopalians are not exactly known for being holy-rollers, you know? From what I saw, the funeral was pretty much what I would have expected from everyone involved, whether it was televised or completely private.

It’s revealing that you should think of a public mention of God as “advertising.” In this particular instance, it’s not, but all too often it is.

The public evangelists, the speakers who try to sneak a plug for their religion into their speeches, the guys who hold up Bible verse signs at televised sporting events, the people who want to publicly display the Ten Commandments or manger scenes in confrontational places: it often seems like they’re selling God, using the same techniques as someone trying to get you to drink Pepsi or try Viagra or vote for a particular political candidate.

This kind of thing is often tacky, sometimes a misuse of public position, and, I suspect, hardly ever does more good than harm. And one of the harmful things it does is to make people like p r r think of every personal expression of piety or reference to God or religious matters this way, including the ones that (like the subject of this thread) clearly are not.

Hell yeah!..
er, I mean…AMEN!

That’s true, but it isn’t an inherently religious event for a nonreligious person, which is what someone seemed to be implying.