Was I The A$$hole?

This is about a thread on Facebook. I thought that I was both on the moral side and doing quite well in the argument. Then, the thread was not there anymore. I’m assuming that somebody deleted it. So, this is from memory.

A friend posted a meme joke. The punchline was “Nothing happened. What a gyp!”. A few people left laughing emojis on the post. I responded with "I find this offensive. The word gyp has bigotted origins. It originally meant “To be swindled or cheated as though by a gypsy.” I was expecting a response from the friend who posed the meme, something like “Oh. I did not know that. I will stop using the phrase.”

What I got was a question from a third poster, who I will call JR. He asked “Are you a gypsy or just somebody who gets offended on their behalf?” I responded with “First, the word gypys is somewhere between outdated (like colored) and offensive. The proper term is Romani. Second, to answer your question I am not Romani That I know of. Are you sayijng that I since I am not black, I cannot object to use of the N word. If you are not saying that, what exactly are you saying?”

JR “I was just asking if you are a gypsy. It’s not that complicated.”

Me “Why do you continue to use a word you know to be offensive? And why does it matter if I am Romani or not?”

JR 'So now the word is offensive? I knew you weren’t a gypsy. Do you have any gypsy friends?"

Me “I said, you can check my first post, that the word was somewhere between outdated and offensive. By continuing to use it, you are clearly trying to cause offense, I may or may not have Romani friends. Why does it matter?”

JR “I knew it was performative outrage. I knew you didn’t know any gypsies.”

JR “Things I learned in 2024- DocCathode doesn’t know any gypsies.”

Me “I neither confirm nor deny having Romani friends. On what exactly do you base your claim that I do not?”

JR “Call it gypsy intuition.”

At this point, I gather he expected me to accept that he was Romani, bow to his superior knowledge and withdraw. Instead, I responded with

Me “Intuition? So,you admit that your claim is not based on anything I’ve written in this thread or facts of any kind? And why do you continue to use an offensive term when you have been provided with an acceptable alternative?”

JR did not make another post. But, he did use the Like button to leave a laughing emoji on my last post.

I waited a few hours. Several people had commented that they were enjoying the argumen between myself and JR. I felt much like I had played chess with a pigeon. I had achieved check mate quickly and easily. He just pooped on the board and strutted proudly. I made one last post-

Me “You claim to be Romani. You may well be. You make this assertion without proof or evidence of any kind. Why should I believe you considering your admission that your claim I do not have any Romani friends is based on zero evidence? Assuming for the sake of argument that you are Romani- so what? This makes you a sample size of one. I will illustrate. I am Jewish. I love cheezy movies. When Hebrew Hammer came out, I had to see it. I did. I loved it. I was sad that there were no Hebrew Hammer or other merchandise. Going by me, a sample size of one, Jews were crazy about the film. A long time friend who is also Jewish and who also loves cheezy movies (In fact he was the one who introduced me to Troma many decades ago), hated Hebrew Hammer. He thought that those responsible should be punished and all copies of the film destroyed. He also felt that Hebrew Hammer was deeply anti semitic. Going by him, a sample size of one, Jews absolutely hated the film. You are a sample size of one. Without a statistically significant number of people, your opinion is just that - your opinion.”

I was curious what JR’s response would be, and what the onlookers would say. When I went to look at the thread again, I could not find it. Even previous notifications about it in my notifications tab were gone.

Please Note- We used to have a member who went by the screen name of Kal. He was Romani. Being a Doper, he always backed up his claims about the Romani with valid cites and links to credible sources. I learned a great deal about the Romani from him. I was not about to tell JR, who struck me at the beginning is your average troll, any of this. JR never did answer my question of why it mattered whether or not I have Romani friends. I do not, at this tme, have any black friends. I’m still going to object if somebody says or posts something derogatory about black people.

You were the asshole

I like how this thread was tagged with chess.

I think you were fine, and given who is saying you were the asshole, you should feel even better.

Not an asshole for calling it out, but “I don’t need to be Romani to be call out that slur when I see it” was really all that needed saying to JR.

Maybe a bit of an asshole for having a long argument on a friend’s Facebook feed.

Oh, and the Hebrew Hammer was a very funny movie.

I think the asshole part is how this was done.

It’s not wrong but the OP is now “that person” at a party no one wants to be around.

I think there are better ways to have communicated the problem with that word to the other person.

Facebook people aren’t like us.

I mean, many of us are probably on Facebook, but when you start arguing with people on FB, it’s not like arguing with us.

To stick with the chess theme, arguing with people on Facebook is like playing chess with a pigeon. You know, they knock over the pieces, shit on the board and strut around like they won.

Don’t bother, it ain’t worth the time. Say your piece and go. Don’t respond to the JRs of the world.

To the original poster of the facebook thing, or to JR, the bigoted asshole in the facebook thread?

This. Please don’t get into extended arguments on my Facebook page, even if you are right. And drop me a note privately if there’s nasty stuff there that i should delete.

Oh, and i was shocked when i learned that the childish slang, “jip”, was spelled “gyp” and was a slur. I haven’t used it since. So i think you were right to mention the problem. But mentioning it and moving on would have been enough.

I’m not sure anything at all needed to be said to JR. Or maybe just two specific words.

You were type cast as one of those hyper PC people who go around just looking for reasons to be offended. The purpose of the ensuing argument seemed to be just to bait you. I have no quarrel with you mentioning it because it is true, but avoiding the argument by simply answering the question with something like, “No, I just thought I’d point it out.”, and leaving it at that probably would have been best.

Yep, you were not an asshole, but you fed the troll. I see why you did though.

…today I learned that my childhood assumption that “gyp” derived from the word “gypsum” is not correct!

Childhood me loved rocks and everything to do with rocks, okay? And “gypsum” made sense to me because it’s not a valuable mineral, so when you got “gypped” it clearly must have meant that someone gave you gypsum in place of a more valuable mineral… (I guess if I’d actually thought about it between then and now I would have realized that this was an unlikely derivation, but I didn’t.)

You’re probably right.

I also rather like :+1: :smiley: :+1:, which I believe Left Hand of Dorkness introduced me to.

I think even people who agree that using slurs against people you are around is wrong can think it is nitpicking to point out what is perceived to be a slur by what they think of is a small obscure group thousands of miles away.

I, personally, like to mentally insert the word “spongy” everywhere there used to be a use of “gypsy”, in honor of the renamed moth. Spongy cab, Spongy Rose Lee, Spongys, Tramps and Theives

It’s generally bad form to start a heated discussion on someone else’s post, especially with a 3rd party. You can make yourself heard, then leave it at that.

Starting your post with “I find this offensive” is a particularly poor way to start any meaningful discussion. You could have made your point by simply going into the derivation of the term, leaving your personal feelings aside.

JR was clearly trolling you, and you didn’t come off very well in the exchange. My verdict, you came off as a minor AH with your initial post. The follow ups were solidly AH territory.

Whatever group you [general you, all the way through this; not specifically Darren] think of as a small obscure group thousands of miles away, there’s probably one standing right behind you in the grocery line.

And they heard what you said.

And yes they speak English.

– I don’t think the OP was the asshole. But I think phrasing the first response by just giving the relevant info without the lecture (‘hey, did you know a lot of people think the word’s offensive because it implies that the people referred to at the time as “gypsies” were all cheaters, and by the way most of them are properly called Romani’), and if challenged as JR did responding “what on earth does it matter?” to the first challenge and then refusing further answer would have been a better technique; though whether I’d have had the wits to use it right off might have been another question.

Agree and emphatically agree.

He is a Certified Circumcised Dick!

TIL “gypsy” is a problematic word. My poor, departed dog.