My question is 1) Was there ever a time since you started driving That you didn’t know this law and 2) If there was, when did you finally learn it?
No, I always have known that a right turn on red is only legal after first coming to a stop. I remember when right turns on red were made legal in Wisconsin, where I grew up – I wasn’t of legal driving age yet, but I remember that there was public-service advertising which explained the new law, including the requirement to stop.
There is no right turn on red (unless specifically posted allowing it) in NYC. I know it’s legal where I live but that it’s not universal; therefore I might be hesitant to do it in some non-local area because I don’t know that state’s laws.
If you’re asking about the stop part, yes, I know that’s what you’re supposed to do; just like one is supposed to come to a complete stop at every stop sign. I, ahem, may or may not have been known to, aaah, “second gear” one or two of those in my lifetime.
Yes. This actually came up this week in a neighborhood message board I admin on Facebook, and, while most people did know this, a few did not realize that you must come to a complete stop before proceeding with the turn. Somebody was pissed they got a red light camera ticket at 6:55 a.m. when the sign said “no turn on red from 7 a.m. - 7 p.m.” and her ticket appeal failed and a few posters were quick to ask: “but did you come to a complete stop?” We never got a straight answer out of that one.
My dad was even confused by it when he completely ran a red (like 20 mph) on a stop sign that said “no turn on red when pedestrians are present.” He absolutely deserved the ticket but I appealed it anyway (because I try to appeal every light ticket for the hell of it – I win about 40% of them for myself and others, which is better than the typical .100 batting average for these things) and, much to my shock, I guess I confused the administrative judge and he won the appeal. I tried it a few years later on a light I just barely ran in the suburb of Justice (like no cop would’ve given me a ticket, IMHO) and I was shocked to win yet again.
Always knew (Arkansas, in my case).
This was in the manual we were all given to review when we applied for our learners’ permits. It was filled with all that sort of material - behavior at 4-way stops, rights of way, hand signals in the absence of turn indicators, appropriate follow distances, default speed limits, etc. It also included a note that turning at red lights was not necessarily allowed in all states. It’s certainly something that is not common outside the US.
I believe full stops at red lights were also on the written exam, but as it has been more decades now than I care of remember since taking that exam, I cannot say for certain. Either way, it was made very clear that one must always come to a complete stop at Stop signs and at red lights without exception.
It was also made clear (and promptly forgotten by many of my fellow classmates not long after) that one must come to a complete stop (no rolling stops, etc) prior to turning right at a red light and that turning at a red light is not compulsory, i.e. you are not breaking any rules by waiting for the green before making the turn.
Much the same for me. It was Pennsylvania not Wisconsin, and I was already driving.
Ditto. So we grew up with “come to a complete stop” at every red light. And when I was a kid it was “Come to a complete stop and then sit there for ages until it turns green no I don’t care if no one’s in sight it’s the law!”
Same but not Wisconsin.
They have always been legal in my part of the country (except those few intersections posted no turn on red), and we see plenty of rolling stops and sometimes multiple cars filing through with barely a pause. What is disturbing to me are a few intersections with two right turn lanes, and drivers in the inner lane often go as well, which seems kind of wrong.
Disturbing to me, too but apparently legal, at least in Arkansas and Texas unless there is a posted sign explicitly prohibiting it.
It’s something we went over in driver’s ed, but I feel like my parents mentioned it prior to then too.
There must have been a time because I failed my first road test for that.
Like others, I was already driving when it became legal. I understood it as a new option available after the stop.
Holy crap! How many lights are you running? I’m 46 and never been given a light ticket, ever.
Edit: Or is it a result of the right turn on red rule? We don’t have that here, so if it’s red you’re stopping.
Let’s see – over the past 20 years, for myself: 6, for my wife: 3, for my father: 1. All were for turning on red. I got three in a row last year on one stop light that I completely did not know was a no-turn-on-red (all those I lost – it was adequately marked, it just didn’t register. I think I assumed it was a 7 a.m. - 7 p.m. sign). It was an 11 p.m. turn on an empty road, I had rolled at at I guess about 5 mph. My real guess is lower, but I’m padding in a couple mph just in case. I never noticed the flash, and given that you don’t get the ticket until a month after you blow it, I blew it two more times that week, without figuring it out until I got my tickets in the mail. (This had not been a route I was previously familiar with.) I was also a bit grumpy because I had gone a good 7 years since my last camera ticket (and I don’t even remember the last time I got an actual ticket written up by an officer of the law – I think about 2007 in Ohio. Never got one for a red – that was for speeding on the interstate.)
Not that it’s an excuse, but I believe Chicago also has the highest amount of red light cameras in any metro area, and in the city proper, the yellow time is the federal minimum of 3.0 s, whereas the suburbs are typically set to 4.0 seconds. Annual red light camera revenue for Chicago itself is $60M on average (tickets are $100, so about 1650 tickets are paid for per day). (One of my successful contests, for my wife, was arguing that the amber time stated on the ticket was 2.9s while the federal minimum was 3.0. I didn’t think it was going to work – that had been thrown out as an excuse before – but it did in my case.)
When I was first learning to drive that rolling stop was called the California Creep*. Then Ronald Reagan was elected governor (yeah, I’m old), and there was a new California Creep!
*But, yes, I knew we were supposed to come to a complete stop.
I have always known that you are supposed to make a a full stop. I live in fairly rural area so it’s fairly common for people not to do that.
Somewhat related: it seems like a lot of cyclists in my state(New Hampshire) are not aware that they are supposed to obey stop signs and red lights as well and come to a complete stop. And not just drive through them even when making a right turn.
I grew up in NYC also, and so never learned about these laws in drivers ed. A quick Google check showed that right turn on red only became legal in the East in 1973 (due to the oil crisis) and I was driving before then. They were definitely no legal in Boston before 1973. So, my answer is before 1973.
In addition to NYC, right on red is also illegal on the island of Montreal (which includes the city of Montreal and a number of other municipalities). There are pictograms at every bridge/tunnel accessing the island.
To this day, I still don’t know what the law is about this (in California). Anybody, fight my iggorance?
One rule I was a bit slow in learning was the rule for a red right-pointing arrow. I assumed it was simply a red light addressed specifically to right-turning cars in the right-most lane, and thus, you can turn after a full stop.
Wrong. I eventually learned (not the hard way) that it means STOP and STAY STOPPED until green.