Its post Thanksgiving and time to take my eldest back to college (another state). After helping him unpack, I took him to a local burger place (not McDs; really high end burgers) for lunch.
I bought the food and we got a table in the back waiting for it to cook, as is my habit.
Next at the next table to us, sitting alone, was an early 20s guy in a bright blue fleece jacket with pretty deep pockets… and sticking out was the butt of a pistol.
It was so heavy, it distended the pocket and the pocket hole was gaping wide; I could see the whole bottom of the clip and part of the grip. Best Guess: full sized 9mm or a .40?
I’m a little taken aback; this is a college town, very sleepy & I never hear of any violence. I wondered if he was an off duty cop… but… cops use holsters. (No really, they do, even off duty).
Then I thought “well maybe he has a CCW”. But… given the MASSIVE hoops to go through to get a CCW in that state (coughBloombergcough)… wouldn’t even those guys have/use holsters?
I mean, unless you are really in a hurry (???) who would risk dropping their (loaded?) weapon out of a standard pocket of a fleece jacket?
It just didn’t add up… but just as I came to that opinion, he suddenly got up and left.
I tried to think of what the responsible thing was to do… so I got up… I got the manager… I pointed to the guy (who was then unlocking his car to drive away) and I mentioned,
“Umm… you see that guy? He had a pistol sticking out of his jacket pocket. Is that something you want to know about?”
The manager seemed at a loss… and I suddenly realized that I must have done the wrong thing in that situation. I suddenly felt very uncomfortable there and I wrapped up the rest of our food & we left.
So… was this a MYOB situation?
Or a “Why are you over thinking it? Grab your kid & Get The Fuck Out Of There!” situation?
This all played out in less than 2 minutes. Basically, how would you have handled it?
I’ve got no problem with CCW, but that’s a really, really unsafe way to carry a gun. This would be a really easy way for him to have left his gun behind by accident. Tell me you’ve never had something fall out of a fleece pocket. My cell phone falls out of my fleece pockets almost every time I sit down.
Like I said, if you want to conceal carry, go nuts, but for the love of god, do it safely. The only thing I can even guess is that this was a half assed attempt to open carry. If your state allows OC without a permit that may have been what he was trying to do, but I wouldn’t be surprised if even having half in a pocket would make it concealed.
Also, lets keep in mind that if someone is carry a concealed weapon, you’ll never now about it. I’m not sure what I would do about it. Letting the manager know puts him in a really awkward position. You could, if you want, make an anonymous call to the cops with the plate/make/model/color of the vehicle and rough description of him and let them police know that the guy, while acting normal and non threatening in every way, does have a gun loosely hanging out of his pocket.
I think telling a manager is reasonable. Legal or not, it’s not a safe way to carry a weapon. My first thought is that he was considering a crime. Maybe it was too busy, not enough cash, too much attention… who knows?
Or maybe he just realized he’d left his pellet gun in his pocket by accident, but it’s better to say something.
Allowing a gun to show(flashing, displaying) is generally a violation of a CCW. Even if he doesn’t lose his permit over it, he deserves a talking to from the police.
As noted, there’s also the safety issue. Not only could the trigger snag on clothing, if the gun is old or poorly maintained, there is a chance of a discharge if it falls.
Plus, if he’s actually serious about having it for protection, there’s no way he could draw if it’s that badly snagged in his clothing.
Most people who have any sense of safety and self-preservation would use a pocket holster when carrying a gun in a pocket as you describe. These holsters expose the grip and magazine area while protecting the trigger. They are usually used in tighter pockets than the one you describe. Even if the guy had a pocket holster, carrying it in such a loose pocket is not very safe or smart.
Whether the guy was violating the concealed carry laws depends on the state. I have an Ohio concealed permit, but Ohio is also an open carry state. I need a permit to hide my gun, but no permit to openly wear it on my belt. So inadvertently giving someone a glimpse of my concealed gun is not a violation of Ohio law. Getting it out and brandishing it would be. Other states have very different rules.
It’s really not. What’s a manager (and some of my managers are 18, 19, 25 years old), supposed to do about a the fact that a customer saw another customer in the restaurant a few minutes ago with a partially concealed gun.
I know the OP wants to tell someone, but it’s a matter for the police. What I think is that the OP wants the police to deal with the guy with the gun but doesn’t want to call them himself for any number of reason.
Let me ask you this, OP, what did you want the manager to do?
If this was a high end burger shop, then they very likely sell beer. In Texas, it’s a violation of every kind of law to carry a weapon into an establishment that serves alcohol. Permit or not.
If the establishment did not serve alcohol and the carrier was doing so legally, if stupidly, I’d still tell the manager. There may not be anything he could or should do except keep an eye out to see if he behaves strangely.
Basically, you may feel a little odd saying “that guy has a gun in his pocket”. But you’d feel like a prize jackass if you didn’t say anything and the guy shot the place up ten minutes after you left, right?
You mentioned Bloomberg, so I can guess where you are from, a city that advertized ‘if you see something, say something’ and provides a special 3 digit number to report such things.
They should follow the restaurant policy. If there isn’t one they should contact someone higher up. I don’t see clearly that a law was broken but a manager is supposed to manage, if a customer sees something that makes him uncomfortable they have to figure out if the customer is being reasonable or not, determine if calling the police was appropriate in this case, and be prepared for the situation if it arises again.
The OP mentioned Bloomberg, so I would assume this is New York State. While open carry is not specifically banned in New York, you must have a permit to carry a handgun, and if you have a permit, it is issued for concealed carry only. Even if the guy did have a permit, I agree, it’s an unsafe way to carry a gun.
I agree it’s not the manager’s responsibility to do anything unless he or she personally witnessed it. If I were the OP, I’d take it on myself to call 911.
But manage what? “Hey that guy that’s not doing anything wrong is making me feel uncomfortable”.
As I said earlier, what I really think is that you wanted police involvement. If that’s the case, there’s not a single reason why you couldn’t have called them yourself (especially since you’re the witness). If that’s not what you wanted, there’s very little that could be done.
You say that they should ‘be prepared’ for the situation if it happens again. But, again, I’ll ask you what you want done if the guy comes back with the gun hanging out of his pocket. If you want the police involved, you should have just called while you had eyes on him instead of waiting until he was driving away to tell the manager of a fast food restaurant. And, again, I’ll say, I think you wanted the cops called but didn’t want to do it yourself.
ETA, whatever your reason is for calling or not calling, for telling the manger, for seeing our approval here for doing what you did or didn’t do. You can rest assured that (at least in most jurisdictions), calling the police and telling them there’s a person with an upholstered firearm, hanging out of his pocket, in a restaurant, will get the police there and they won’t fault you for it. It’s not like wondering if you should call the cops after a minor fender bender on a side street with no damage to either car.
Now, if he was standing in line in a bank or something, but the horse had already left the barn. What possible good could it have done? All you did was add doubt and worry to some poor schnooks life.
You’re all probably right. The place didn’t serve alcohol, but two burgers, a small fries, and two bottles of water were over $20 (Yeah, but they really Do make burgers that are that good).
I really didn’t want to call 911 because I wasn’t 100% positive / absolutely sure beyond doubt that the law was broken or that people were in danger.
I mean, I can’t go calling the cops every time some A-hole drives around with one headlight burned out or other petty stuff, can I? Cops really don’t want to be dragged out for petty stuff and I’m not even from that state.
Was he casing the place for a robbery later? Maybe (but he hasn’t committed a crime yet). That’s why I told the manager. I figured that the bright light blue fleece (80s neon light blue) would really stand out
and if he came back, the manager must have some procedure corporate wants her to follow.
Also, if I heard that there was a shooting later, I Would have felt horrible for not saying something to someone.
I’m not suggesting police involvement, if I thought that was warranted I’d do it myself. I’m just saying that patrons of store of any kind should tell the manager if they’re uncomfortable about anything. I’ve seen that they do for the most ridiculous of matters, for something of real concern I don’t see why they wouldn’t. That doesn’t mean the manager can do anything about it, but I’d hope in the case of a gun the manager would follow a policy or find out what it was for the future. If they can’t do that they shouldn’t be a manager.