We need to call out inherent racism in explicit terms

[Acsenray]

This is actually not a Pitting of another poster, nor is it a rant. It’s actually a Debate or an IMHO, but I have been instructed to bring it here because of my use of terminology.

This is the exchange:

@doorhinge

• Are other countries police forces facing the same criminal mindset that U.S. police are facing?

@Human_Action

Why wouldn’t they? You just told me that all criminals share common thought patterns and outlook on life.

@Acsenray

You might understand Doorhinge’s question better if I translate the dog whistle: "Are other countries’ police forces facing as many niggers that U.S. police are facing?

@elucidator

To be ruthlessly just, he has not truly given clear evidence of bigotry. While that is typical of the tighty-righty mindset, it is not universal. So, no fair.

No, I’m sorry. It’s completely fair. This is exactly why we’ve reached a plateau in fighting institutional racism. In the 1960s, we started to make official racism illegal, but the progress that was made has slowed because of the inherent racism-in-all-but-name that continues to exist in our society and in our institutions.

Now that official racism is illegal, people get to claim that racism no longer exists, so black people have no one to blame but themselves for anything unfortunate that happens to them.

Really, what has happened is the inherent racism and white supremacy embedded in our society and our institutions have simply been stripped of explicit racist terms.

Now, only a fringe hate group will openly use bigoted terms, but everyone else will swear up and down “I don’t discriminate on the basis of skin color” and they get to comfort themselves with that thought—“I’m not racist because I don’t say that black people are inferior.” But they continue to act that way, even if they don’t admit it.

Meanwhile, study after study shows that black people are routinely discriminated against in hiring, in housing, and even in schools. Black people are punished more harshly for the same transgressions as white people from the time that they are little children in school.

Police deal more harshly with black people are are more quick to use force, because they are scared of black people simply because they are black. That’s racism.

Health care workers give black people—even children—lower doses of painkillers because they unconsciously believe that black people don’t feel as much pain as non-black people.

When we see inherent racism, we need to call it out. We need to disturb the self-comforting that people have given themselves that they’re not racist because they don’t think or speak in explicit racist terms. The issue here is that the society, our institutions, and are system, are racist, even though no one thinks of themselves as racist.

[Ambivalid]

Cite for health care workers giving black people lower doses of painkillers because they unconsciously believe black people feel less pain? I’ve never heard that before.

[dropzone]

We’ve been discussing the range of human hearing in another thread, and I admit that mine isn’t what it once was, but I’m not hearing the dog whistle in what **doorhinge **said in that quote. And he usually uses a trumpet rather than a dog whistle.

Anyway, I think the word the OP is looking is “implicit,” not “inherent,” in that exchange.

[XT]

Maybe there is some historical context I’m missing here, but just based on the dialogue you are citing in the OP, I’m not seeing the automatic racism either. I agree with ‘luci on that one. Saying that the US police forces face a different challenge than, say, the UK is true…we are a country built on immigrants, and they are an established nation state that has existed for thousands of years and have a more homogenous population and culture. You seem to be automatically jumping to ‘Are other countries’ police forces facing as many niggers that U.S. police are facing?’, which is pretty offensive AND seems kind of a leap to me (again, perhaps you have some context or historic reason to automatically jump to this conclusion?).

Now that official racism is illegal, people get to claim that racism no longer exists, so black people have no one to blame but themselves for anything unfortunate that happens to them.

Who says this? I don’t know anyone who says there is no racism at all. Hell, there is racism on all sides, and race is a huge issue in the US and will continue to be for years to come.

Now, only a fringe hate group will openly use bigoted terms, but everyone else will swear up and down “I don’t discriminate on the basis of skin color” and they get to comfort themselves with that thought—“I’m not racist because I don’t say that black people are inferior.” But they continue to act that way, even if they don’t admit it.

The other side of that coin is folks like you who automatically jump to label someone racist. It’s, to me, a disturbing trend in the debates that have been hitting the board lately in the wake of the tragic events recently by the police. The thing is, it’s thrown around so often in these debates, either openly or in supposed clever innuendo that it’s rapidly losing it’s meaning. When everything that smacks of disagreement is automatically labeled as racism and those who disagree automatically racist then the label itself is diluted to uselessness, and REAL racism allowed to flourish.

Health care workers give black people—even children—lower doses of painkillers because they unconsciously believe that black people don’t feel as much pain as non-black people.

Really? First I’ve heard of that.

When we see inherent racism, we need to call it out. We need to disturb the self-comforting that people have given themselves that they’re not racist because they don’t think or speak in explicit racist terms. The issue here is that the society, our institutions, and are system, are racist, even though no one thinks of themselves as racist.

If you call everything you see that disagrees with you a racists then I think it really dilutes whatever it is you are hoping to accomplish. YMMV of course, but unless there is more than what you quoted in the OP I think you are over reacting and jerking your knee…and doing your side a disservice in doing so.

[andros]

From “When race matters: disagreement in pain perception between patients and their physicians in primary care”, Journal of the NMA, May 2007:

In both the bivariate and multivariable models, black race was a significant variable associated with underestimation of pain by physicians

[Acsenray]

@Ambivalid

Cite for health care workers giving black people lower doses of painkillers because they unconsciously believe black people feel less pain? I’ve never heard that before.

It is believed that the bias originates in a belief that people who have rough backgrounds feel less pain, but then they assume that all black people have the same rough background. Both white and black health care workers operate with the same assumptions and fail to adequately treat the pain of black patients. What it adds up to is structural racism.

News article: Racial empathy gap: People don’t perceive pain in other races.

A recent study shows that people, including medical personnel, assume black people feel less pain than white people. …

This gives us some insight into how racial disparities are created—and how they are sustained. First, there is an underlying belief that there is a single black experience of the world. Because this belief assumes blacks are already hardened by racism, people believe black people are less sensitive to pain. Because they are believed to be less sensitive to pain, black people are forced to endure more pain.

Consider disparities in treatment for pain. **We’ve known for at least two decades that minorities, primarily blacks and Hispanics, receive inadequate pain medication. Often this failure comes when people need help the most. ** …

Some of the problem is structural. **We’ve also known for some time that pharmacies in nonwhite communities fail to adequately stock opioids. **In a 2005 study, Michigan pharmacies in white communities were 52 times more likely to sufficiently stock opioids than in nonwhite communities. But this does not fully explain the problem. **When pain medicine is available, minorities receive less of it. **Medical personnel may care deeply about treating the pain of minorities. Even so, they might recognize less of it—and this may explain why the pain is so poorly treated.

The study: Racial Bias in Perceptions of Others’ Pain

Abstract

The present work provides evidence that people assume a priori that Blacks feel less pain than do Whites. It also demonstrates that this bias is rooted in perceptions of status and the privilege (or hardship) status confers, not race per se. Archival data from the National Football League injury reports reveal that, relative to injured White players, injured Black players are deemed more likely to play in a subsequent game, possibly because people assume they feel less pain. Experiments 1–4 show that White and Black Americans–including registered nurses and nursing students–assume that Black people feel less pain than do White people. Finally, Experiments 5 and 6 provide evidence that this bias is rooted in perceptions of status, not race per se. Taken together, these data have important implications for understanding race-related biases and healthcare disparities.

[Morgenstern]

@Acsenray

…

Police deal more harshly with black people are are more quick to use force, because they are scared of black people simply because they are black. That’s racism.

…

Wow, I’m confused here, are you arguing that this is in fact true, or is there an “if” missing at the beginning of the sentence?

[get_lives]

Re: this painkillers study:

Racist Dopers are dumber than shit. Can you idiots not find google in your browser’s address bar, or use the search bar that’s probably already there too, right near the address bar? I already read about this study on facebook.

This says volumes about the ignorant and racist bubbles that most of you conservatives live in. I’m thinking of all the OTHER racists who will never hear about this study, simply because it will never make it into their bubble.

[Acsenray]

@Morgenstern

Wow, I’m confused here, are you arguing that this is in fact true, or is there an “if” missing at the beginning of the sentence?

I’m saying it’s a fact. People of all races are scared of black people just because they are black.

This news article — http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/28/opinion/nicholas-kristof-is-everyone-a-little-bit-racist.html?_r=0 — touches on a lot of these issues. It mentions a study in the form of a shooting game. The player is supposed to shoot someone with a gun and not shoot someone who doesn’t have a gun. Results show that people are disproportionately likely to shoot unarmed black men.

[XT]

@get_lives

Re: this painkillers study:

Racist Dopers are dumber than shit. Can you idiots not find google in your browser’s address bar, or use the search bar that’s probably already there too, right near the address bar? I already read about this study on facebook.

This says volumes about the ignorant and racist bubbles that most of you conservatives live in. I’m thinking of all the OTHER racists who will never hear about this study, simply because it will never make it into their bubble.

Because, you know, if someone doesn’t follow a story on Facebook (one of the more reliable sources on the internet) and hasn’t heard about an article by a Ph.D. student in anthropology at Harvard they must be a racist AND a conservative, right?

[D_Anconia]

@get_lives

Re: this painkillers study:

I already read about this study on facebook.

Well, that settles it, then. You read it FACEBOOK, so it must be true. :smack:

[iiandyiiii]

@D_Anconia

Well, that settles it, then. You read it FACEBOOK, so it must be true. :smack:

The study is linked in this thread.

[andros]

@iiandyiiii

The study is linked in this thread.

Actually, two studies are linked in this thread. Please feel free to read before spouting off like an asshole, D’Anconia.

[XT]

@iiandyiiii

The study is linked in this thread.

Yes, and I’m glad the OP linked to them. Ignorance fought and all that. However, it doesn’t seem such a onerous request to ask for that, nor do I see that everyone would automatically know about that study, as implied by get lives. Not so?

[Ambivalid]

@get_lives

Re: this painkillers study:

Racist Dopers are dumber than shit. Can you idiots not find google in your browser’s address bar, or use the search bar that’s probably already there too, right near the address bar? I already read about this study on facebook.

This says volumes about the ignorant and racist bubbles that most of you conservatives live in. I’m thinking of all the OTHER racists who will never hear about this study, simply because it will never make it into their bubble.

Who are you talking to? Anyone who hasn’t heard of this study is a racist conservative?

[D_Anconia]

@Acsenray

I’m saying it’s a fact. People of all races are scared of black people just because they are black.

This news article — http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/28/opinion/nicholas-kristof-is-everyone-a-little-bit-racist.html?_r=0 — touches on a lot of these issues.

That isn’t a news article, silly. It says “Opinion Pages” and “OP-ED Columnist” right at the top of the page. Are you confused?

[get_lives]

@XT

Because, you know, if someone doesn’t follow a story on facebook and hasn’t heard about an article by a Ph.D. student in anthropology at Harvard they must be a racist AND a conservative, right?

LOL If you have skimmed your facebook feed today for more than 5-10 minutes and NOT seen this article, your bubble is racist. Recognize your inherent prejudices, and recognize the fact that your bubble ENCOURAGES them, is what I would say to those of you who would not ever have seen this without coming here.

And I am still thinking of all the people who will NEVER learn about this article, or others about related studies.

[Budget_Player_Cadet]

Welp, there goes the thread. :rolleyes:

Hey D’andumbfuck, read the article. Opinion piece or not, it cites a fucking massive wealth of published research.

[get_lives]

@Ambivalid

Who are you talking to? Anyone who hasn’t heard of this study is a racist conservative?

People could google before challenging. The request for a cite on THIS topic (and some related ones), not all topics, prior to a google search is evidence of at least a slightly racist bias, even if it’s unconscious.

And my whole point is that the nature of facebook, plus the internet in general these days, encourages bubbles. People are not sufficiently aware of this, IMHO.

[XT]

[QUOTE=get lives]
LOL If you have skimmed your facebook feed today for more than 5-10 minutes and NOT seen this article, your bubble is racist. Recognize your inherent prejudices, and recognize the fact that your bubble ENCOURAGES them, is what I would say to those of you who would not ever have seen this without coming here.
[/QUOTE]

News flash, chief…I don’t HAVE a Facebook feed, and I haven’t opened my Facebook account in freaking years. I get my news from CNN and the BBC. So, your knee jerk reaction and automatic assumption that everyone HAS a Facebook feed and followed exactly what you do kind of makes you a bubble idiot, and probably encourages just the kinds of knee jerk reaction I was talking about in my own first post in this (sure to be a train wreck) thread.

And I am still thinking of all the people who will NEVER learn about this article, or others about related studies.

Well, sure, but you obviously aren’t the brightest bulb in the holiday light string.