We tortured kids to get their fathers to talk! God have mercy on our souls

I don’t even believe in God, but right now, it seems like it’s an appropriate thing to say. Certainly no one else will have mercy on our souls.
I know this was posted in another thread, and elucidator’s rant was one of the finest I’ve ever read, but this deserves attention with a descriptive subject line (though yours was much more poetic elucidator). I’m so heartbroken now that my boiling anger while reading this has already turned to deep, deep depression.

Any German translators out there?

I’m so ill right now. We are so fucked. Our children are fucked. Their children are fucked. I do feel responsible. There’s no one I can apologise to. There’s no way I could ever apologise enough.

Do you hate freedom or something? Our soldiers are making america safer.

Are you kidding? Or are you a soulless bastard or something?

I can’t tell.

He’s a newbie, & I don’t recall him.

If, however, he does mean it, he is a jerk.

The other tragedy, alluded to in the OP, is that the fifth estate in the United States has entirely given up its job to keep an eye on the government. The complete lack of criticism in the American media - outside of fat documentarians, I guess - is just baffling to me.

If you have specific questions, yes. Interesting grammar aside, the linked automatic translation seems to get the basic facts right, but the video is a lot more detailed.

I also saw the original report on TV.
Btw. “Report Mainz” has a pretty good reputation as an investigative program.

Lets be clear here. What is the upper age limit for the term “children”. I have a 22 year old daughter who is still a child to me and yet is quite older than a lot of Americans who are putting their life on the line. God, war is a bitch!

A specific case of one twelve-year-old girl is mentioned and they talk about other children “before the age of puberty”. Apart from this people 16 and older are apparently treated as adults anyway.

What about Floridiraq?

Oh, I get it. Because some kids killed their dad it justifies our torture of Iraqi children.

What most disturbs me about the torture story in general isn’t just that people were tortured, but rather that the methods used were those specifically invented to avoid leaving evidence of the torture. Stress positions, water boarding, exposure: all of these things can be as painful and psychologically devastating via pain as any other torture, yet they all share common traits:

  1. they leave few or no marks or physical damage
  2. they don’t “sound” all that bad to the uninformed public, even though they are just as horrifically painful as any other form of torture

That these methods were used shows a LOT of forethought about how to not only torture people, but also to both conceal the fact from the public as well as make it seem like it wasn’t all that bad even if the public finds out. Worse, generally the only people who know about these methods are high ranking intelligence agents. Ordinary soldiers aren’t taught these things, and they aren’t the sorts of things that would simply occur to them.

I fail to see the relevance of this to the Abu Grahib scandal. What about it? Do tell.

How does your knee taste? No child anywhere should be held to account for any crime. He is incapable of giving or withholding meaningful consent and therefore incapable of committing a crime.

I am supporting the OP’s indignation. Is there not another liberal on this board? Someone who champions the rights of individuals, derived from liberty? Liberal. Liberty. Same same.

If you’re going to post unrelated news without providing any explantion as to why you are posting it then you’re going to have to expect people to draw their own conclusions about your intentions. Further, I don’t see how consent has anything to do with the OP. Perhaps you would like to explain this as well?

What is the deal? You intention is to deny me any benefit of the doubt whatsoever no matter how many times I have expressed exactly the indignation that I am expressing right now? Over the past five years? The point is that the exact same root of tyranny that accounts for what happened in Basra accounts for what happened in Pensacola. It is a far deeper issue than a few renegade thugs at Abu Ghraib.

I think I understand your point. However (yeah, here it comes), I don’t think the two cases are comparable.

In one case we have children being tortured to obtain a confession from fathers. Tortured by government sanctioned authority.

In another, we have children driven to the breaking point by abuse at the hands of criminals.

What about UranusIraq?

The OP is about kids being tortured to make their parents talk, part of the whole ‘war on terror’ gig. while it is indeed true that the US has what can be considered to be an abysmal record wrt the imprisonment of children (joining the ranks of countries such as Iran and prewar Iraq in this regard), it was not the topic of the OP.

While threads often flow and ebb like conversations, this is the equivalent of “yea, that’s bad but it’s related to this” and trying to twist the conversation around to a topic and bent that is your agenda, and IMHO, is not particularly polite.

and since I just came from another thread (**'luci’s ** thread on the prison scandal) in which you also seem to want to skew the conversation away from the topic posed by the OP, and into the area of “relative guilt via the political process” wrt the Iraqi prison, it seems to me to be a recent trend for you.

reminds me of myself in grade school when I would attempt to stop the merry go round 'cause I enjoyed playing on it, but disliked going round and round 'cause it made me dizzy. The teacher was kind enough to pull me aside and gently remind me that everything didn’t have to go my way just 'cause I liked it better that way.

If you wish to start a thread about how minors are treated in the US system, I’d be happy to pariticipate - however, I suggest that this thread is not the place for that.

said as a poster who has absolutely no control over any other poster and is just registering my opinion.

Is this addressed to me? Perhaps other posters keep track of all your posts; I do not. Nor do I believe that we have ever engaged in a debate on these boards, so I have no particular reason to be familiar with your 5 year history - especially since I’ve been a member less than a year.