Pfeh. I’m not convinced religion is something that deserves to be treated differently than merit badges and radio stations. Like the badges, the American flags, and many other decals - station logos a bit less so - it’s an effort to say “look at me, I’m ever-so-smart! And you should all care about my opinion and think like I do.” So yeah, it’s fundamentally (fundamentalisticcally?) obnoxious.
Which is why when I’m President, we’ll all drive bumper cars. I won’t settle for flipping off people with Jesus fish and hoping they see it. They’ll KNOW what I think when I slam into their cars.
It might be worth noting that the passage that commands Christians to pray in private is from the Gospel Matthew (6), verses 5-7:
5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
The passage you cite is from the Acts of the Apostles. I would think that Jesus words hold more sway than the Apostles and I would also think that, according to this passage from Matthew, Jesus would consider those people that are so loudly self-righteous in their practice of faith would be hypocrits. As an agnostic who thinks that religion is half the root of all evil (the other, money), I do wish some religious people would pay more attention than they do, and that all religion would die. Faith is another matter, one I don’t care about. To each his own.
presidebt, I’ve always assumed that the Gospel and Acts were talking about two different activities here. Jesus is telling people to focus on God when they pray; Acts is telling people to focus on others when they witness. Prayer is an intimate act, a conversation with the person of God, witnessing is a public act, telling others about God. I don’t think there’s a conflict between the two admonitions.
Elenia25, I live in the fervent hope and unsubstianted belief that God has a terrific sense of humor.
That’s a bit harsh, isn’t it?
Do you object to having beliefs, or to expressing them via bumper-sticker?
If I put a bumper sticker on my car supporting a particular political candidate, or sports team, or radio station, would I be arrogantly expressing my superiority over those who support a different candidate or team or station?
If you saw a “gay pride” bumper sticker, would you sniff and say, “Sincere homosexuals act their gayness”?
When presented with fundamentalists telling me I must do something or pay a penalty, I’m much more likely NOT to do whatever it is they’re telling me I have to. That includes being “saved.”
This reminds me of something I heard on the radio near Halloween which really, really pissed me off. I was flipping through some stations and stopped on the Steve & DC show. They were talking about the upcoming holiday and saying that they were going to teach people how to perform “mini exorcisms” in their homes for those who were afflicted by ghosts. They also stated that Halloween was a holiday in celebration of Satan and that children should not be allowed to trick-or-treat. I was really, really offended by this. I mean, it’s a fucking morning talk show and it was on an 80’s station! I was more offended, however, when a woman called in saying “Oh, I don’t think you should give this sort of power to those who haven’t been saved. The power of exorcism can be dangerous and to put it in the hands of those who aren’t saved or are only ‘half-saved’ could be disastrous.” Ok, lady, are you out of your fucking mind?!!! Then Steve & DC (whoever the hell they are in real life) explained to the woman that they hoped this would help people learn the light of Jesus and that even those who weren’t saved needed this knowledge because most people had shades of Satan in their homes. The woman disagreed and said that those who weren’t truly saved (like her, of course) didn’t deserve such powerful knowledge. I felt like I was in the twilight zone.
Really? Well, shoot. Here I was thinking they meant,
“You can trust me.”
“I will treat you as I hope to be treated.”
“I have faith that God is watching over me. And you.”
“Please don’t think too harshly of me if I act differently than you think a Christian is supposed to act. I am still learning how.”
Silly me. It’s really all about flagrant displays of self-righteousness!
I don’t have your gift for insight, so for my own peace of mind you’re going to have to delineate for me which displays of obnoxious unearned superiority are being used to show off:
A cross on a necklace?
A rosary?
A priest’s/pastor’s white collar?
Since it’s very important to me for my faith to be 100% palatable and confrontation-free for every person on the earth, I really need to know where the line falls.
Yeah. I mean, it’s not like Christ ever said anything like that.
Luke11:23 He who is not with Me [siding and believing with Me] is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me [engage in My interest], scatters.
Really? Wow. Here I thought they were supporting our troops and proclaiming their love for their country. Who knew they were actually all homophobes?
Thanks for your post, btw. You’ve really provided a great example of a non-judgemental Christian.
Why sure!. Christ is all about the comfort. “Hey, I got spikes through my hands and feet, but at least I’m comfortable!”
Matt16:24 If anyone desires to be My disciple, let him deny himself [disregard, lose sight of, and forget himself and his own interests] and take up his cross and follow Me [cleave steadfastly to Me, conform wholly to My example in living and, if need be, in dying, also].
There you have it. Become a disciple of Christ and live a life of comfort.
You think Jesus never got in anyone’s face? Read the rest of Luke 11, when He sits down at a Pharisee’s table and proceeds to read him the riot act.
Jeez. If He did that today, I’m sure somebody would be calling Him “tacky”.
Well, we’re not talking about praying. We’re talking about witnessing, something that’s rather difficult to do in a private room with the door closed. Although it’s obvious there’s quite a few Dopers who wish that WAS how we do it.
Yes, we should be looking to an agnostic who hates religion to explain exactly which parts of God’s Word carry more weight. Odd I didn’t think to ask one before now…
Really, if we’re going to be splitting hairs down to which Bible verses ‘hold more sway’, p’raps we should keep in mind that “Love thy neighbor” is actually the second Great Commandment. The first is: Mark12:30 And you shall love the Lord your God out of and with your whole heart and out of and with all your soul (your life) and out of and with all your mind (with your faculty of thought and your moral understanding) and out of and with all your strength. This is the first and principal commandment.
Which obviously means keeping every letter of His Word as the absolute truth, right? And “Love thy neighbor” is of secondary importance to this. Then again, take heart, you who are full-on bugged by evangelism, for the Great Commission (the “make disciples of all nations” bit) is actually the third Great Commandment. Which means it can practically be ignored altogther!
Actually, the ‘response’ bumper sticker to this is “In the event of rapture, can I have your car?”
Which I think is quite funny. But that’s my streak of irreverence that runs through me. See? I’m not perfect, just… Well, you know the rest.
eh, I see it all the time. It doesn’t bother me that they have god stickers all over their cars… however, I have noticed a distinct correlation between being flipped the bird and god sticker cars. 9 times out of 10 when I get flipped off, its by people in god sticker cars. I don’t think they like my evolve fish… or maybe its the procreate fish… dunno :rolleyes:
Some day I’m going to make a series of bumperstickers that refer to biblical verses (like the Isiah one) that are just taken completely out of context. Such as:
Genesis 16:34 (When Eber had lived thirty-four years, he became the father of Peleg) And anything else along this line.
Ezekiel 38:2 (Mortal, set your face toward Gog, of the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal.)
I live in West Tennessee so I see this sort of thing all the time and rarely pay attention to it but a few months ago someone who had atheist as a license plate was seen in the area by a radio dj. Oh the horror!! Raised quite a stink over the whole thing. Personally I think it is tacky but to each his own. I did see one that made me chuckle the other day though
You know, arguing the nature of God, Jesus, faith and so on by throwing out one Bible verse to contradict another is a game I truly didn’t want to play.
But, I’m sorry, Presidebt, that I didn’t put the phrase I quoted into a little more context.
The verse I quoted from the Acts is from the first chapter, and was spoken by Jesus himself, after he rose from the dead, but before he was taken into heaven. By the way I read it, that means Jesus was comfortable telling his followers BOTH to pray in private and take their faith to others.
If, as an agnostic who wishes “that all religion would die” you want to argue your points by quoting the Bible, you might want to get your cites straight.
Without reading very carefully, asking me for clarification or looking back to my 45+ posts, you make some assumptions and start lobbing scripture at me. Is this supposed to show that I’m wrong and you’re right? You seem more interested in biblical responses than what my feelings might actually be, which was one of the main points I was making.
I don’t mind expressions of faith as a natural reaction to life. I do it, too, but much less so than others. I don’t particularly mind most of the bumperstickers, posters, etc., except for the ones that appear to make uninformed value judgements. I don’t mind dicussing religion with people who respect my beliefs, but I do not care to have someone talk at me about religion.
It’s more than just praying, though: In the same breath, Jesus also tells his followers to give alms in secret. I think it’s just a general admonition against self-righteousness. So the verses on witnessing should be taken in that context: a true Christian should witness, but not use it as an opportunity to be self-righteous.
I’m not Christian, however, so I reserve the right to find any and all witnessing, whether self-righteous or humble in spirit, to be annoying.
And re: the comparisons to “gays wearing their gayness on their sleeve,” I think it’s a false analogy. Gay people are not trying to make me gay, despite Fred Phelps’ accusations to the contrary.
Ignoring your ironic haughtiness, I would like to ask a question then. I seem to remember from my days attending church, which I did do for many years (not that that qualifies me to intepret scripture according to some here) that the Gospels were the Word of God, while the rest of the NT books were the “inspired word of God.” Is this still true? If so, that, to me, implies a certain risk of fallibility.
PS–in the fundamentalist church that I attended, witnessing neccessarily resulted in praying. That would be praying together with the converting to accept Jesus into their hearts, so on and so forth. This often happens in public, and since that [conversion through prayer] is the objective of witnessing, I’d say my citation and interpretation has some relevance.
I’m sorry, but I don’t know what you mean to say with that comment.
Islam is a very personal religion and praying is a very personal matter = you seek direct contact with God, which is why no distraction can be allowed.
The fact that many go to the mosque on friday has nothing to do with that. Praying is still something between you and God, privately.
Proselytizing as is done in Christianity is not allowed.
For the rest of the OP, my idea is that it describes a situation aht is typical for the USA only.
Can be that I am wrong. But upto now I didn’t see such stickers and other such signs declaring “Look, I am a Christian” somewhere else.
Vlad/Igor,, I have no trouble understanding what you are saying about finding what is comfortable for you. I was a teacher for many years. It was crucial to determine how my students learned best; it’s not the same for everyone.
Tygr may be his own example of what can happen when Christianity becomes confrontational, corrective, and joyless. Whatever happened to “the peace that passeth understanding”?
I personally find the bumperstickers tasteless and tacky, but I don’t get to be in charge of that.
