Wearing religion on your sleeve?

[wintert]

In this discussion, I’ve noted lots of references to loving Christians as well as obnoxious Christians. I would suggest reading What’s So Amazing About Grace, by Philip Yancy. It’s very well written, though from a Christian point of view. It talks very honestly about how Christians are suppossed to love and how they often fail at it, greatly hurting many people.

The only comment I will make is that people should try to look at Christ, not at Christians. We are but imperfect images of the perfect God. Both sides should remember that.

-Tom

[Anaamika]

@Aldebaran

I’m sorry, but I don’t know what you mean to say with that comment.

Islam is a very personal religion and praying is a very personal matter = you seek direct contact with God, which is why no distraction can be allowed.
The fact that many go to the mosque on friday has nothing to do with that. Praying is still something between you and God, privately.

Salaam. A

Forgive me if I insulted Islam. While I don’t really agree with any religion, in this debate it was not my intent to start a flame war or argue over which religion was the best or most public.

I wasn’t talking about going to the mosque on Fridays. What I meant was the obvious case of Muslims all over the Arab countries kneeling down five times a day for prayer, wherever they might be. If that is not public prayer, then I do not know what else can be.

[Aldebaran]

Forgive me if I insulted Islam. While I don’t really agree with any religion, in this debate it was not my intent to start a flame war or argue over which religion was the best or most public.

For as far as I’m concerned, you didn’t insult anything or anyone, I was just wondering where that remark came from.

In an Islamic nation it is that normal to see people pray when it is time, wherever they may be, that you actually don’t notice it at all.
I notice it a little bit when I see this coming home after being away for a longer peirod. It then becomes a bit a part of “being home again”.

Where you are wrong in your perception of this - I think - is that you have the impression that it is done “on purpose in public” while it is not.
People just happen to pray when it is time and there is no difference if you are inside or outside, in public or in private, in a mosque or at home.
You hear the muezzin. OK. Time to pray. And you pray

It is in my opinion the same as when you are in a nation where you hear church bells several times a day, especially on sundays or other holy days in Christianity.
Christians are supposed to go to church then and pray but I guess that many Christians also pray during the day, if they are in public or not (especially before taking a meal).

The way Muslims pray is more manifest then the way for example Christians pray which is why you notice Muslims much more when they pray during salaat, which is what you refer to.
Salaam. A

[Kent_Clark]

@presidebt

Ignoring your ironic haughtiness, I would like to ask a question then. I seem to remember from my days attending church, which I did do for many years (not that that qualifies me to intepret scripture according to some here) that the Gospels were the Word of God, while the rest of the NT books were the “inspired word of God.” Is this still true? If so, that, to me, implies a certain risk of fallibility.

If I came off as haughty, then I owe you an apology. I was angry, since I interpreted your comment “that all religion would die” as fighting words.

But I’ve had a long weekend away from the Boards, and I’m not interested in a flame match (and if I came off as being ready to go to the Pit, I am truly sorry.) I’ll try to address your question in a non-ironic and hopefully non-haughty way.

(Note, I’m not putting in qualifiers here. I’m well aware that if God doesn’t exist or if Jesus wasn’t divine, the entire Bible is simply the product of overactive imaginations.)

Christians believe the entire Bible (Old and New Testaments) to be God’s word, inspired by God, but written down by human authors. Some Christians believe in the literalism, or inerrancy of the entire Bible, while others believe that each of the books reflects the times they were written in and audience they were written for – therefore, there are some changes in voice or nuance.

When it comes to the Gospels, Christians believe they include the words of Jesus Christ, but not every word in each Gospel is directly from the mouth of Jesus. There are long stretches of narrative which describe Jesus in the third person, obviously recorded by a narrator.

The first chapter of Acts, which includes words of Jesus after his resurrection until he was taken into heaven, is considered as “valid” a recording of Jesus’ words as any of the Gospels. The Gospels, of course, hold center stage because they include the stories (the Sermon on the Mount, the Parables, the words of the “Our Father” prayer, etc.) from which a great deal of Christian teaching is drawn.

[ferngully]

@presidebt

It might be worth noting that the passage that commands Christians to pray in private is from the Gospel Matthew (6), verses 5-7:

5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

The passage you cite is from the Acts of the Apostles. I would think that Jesus words hold more sway than the Apostles and I would also think that, according to this passage from Matthew, Jesus would consider those people that are so loudly self-righteous in their practice of faith would be hypocrits. As an agnostic who thinks that religion is half the root of all evil (the other, money), I do wish some religious people would pay more attention than they do, and that all religion would die. Faith is another matter, one I don’t care about. To each his own.

I think the spirit behind displaying those bumper stickers is what truly matters. Christians are not called to be so only in private. Actually, quite to the contrary:

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.”
Mark 16:15, KJV