You know, vanilla, GW should be deeply offended by your post. The use of the Orthodox Jewish Smilie clearly assumes that he is an Orthodox Jew. You are implying that his beliefs are worthless with your insensitive inclusion of a Judaic reference. The use of a smilie face with long sideburns who isn’t Elvis is clearly innapropriate and I demand a retraction.
Ha ha.
Actually, a former church’s pastor I was listening to during the election fiasco said that God was working this all together for Bush to be president.
Seriously.
GW is Not going to read this, mister, so I doubt if he’d be offended!
Yes, i know your being funny.
Here’s the crux of it all. I WOULD NOT CARE. I would say, gosh…Phillipe sent me a card, he was thinking of me at this holiday season and is wishing me well in his own way.
I take my religion seriously, but that doesn’t mean I tear down other people’s. Spirituality is a personal journey.
Uh…so you are saying that Jefferson was a Christian and that the God in the DoI means something other than the Creator John Locke was referring to?
I’m an ardent advocate of the Separation of Church and State, but I draw the line at the idea that people employed by the federal government have to somehow suppress their personal beliefs in non-policy venues or face the wrath of the Consitutionalists.
I’m not a fan of Bush II, but he has every right to hold Christian beliefs, and he has every right to send an e-mail Christmas card to “his” employees. He also has every right to sign off on that card with his own faith-specific well-wishes, rather than some ugly, flat, PCified “May the Deity that you worship (or don’t) bless you (or not) on this joyous holiday season (for some of us).”
I detect some offensensitivity* here…
[sub]*bonus points for those who can identify the source of that word…[/sub]
wring the sentimental greeting came via e-mail.
So cost was minimal (Unless you figure the infinitesimal amount of time required to delete the message, multiplied by a couple million employees. And I doubt the pres composed it himself, and personally pressed “send” a couple million times.)
I am surprised so many of you see no significance in the forum chosen for this message. To me, there is a big difference if little Aunt Eisel sends me a card with the Madonna and child on it. Compared to the POTUS - my boss’ boss’ boss’ boss’ boss’ boss - an individual with the potential to profoundly influence so many aspects of policy - choosing yet another forum (I previously ranted about his unfailing invocation of God following 9/11), in the exercise of his official position, in a message sent to government employees over a dedicated government channel, to flaunt his particular religious views. This was not a personal message to Dinsdale from W. This was entitled a message to all federal employees from the POTUS. It was forwarded to me (and everyone else in our agency in this region) by the regional commissioner.
This is the same reason that nutty judge in - where? Alabama? - should be free to post the 10 commandments anywhere on his property, but not in the courthouse. The same reason it is improper for the nation’s top lawyer to hold employee prayer breakfasts at work. The reason folks in positions of authority are (or ought to be) concerned about even the appearance of impropriety.
Does Season’s greeting leave christians so unfulfilled? And I suggest it is disingenuous that you see no distinction in moving from Best wishes, right past Merry Christmas to a double barrelled shot of God-love.
beeblebrox - trees, saturnalia, festival of lights, solstice, christian usurpation of ancient celebrations. You know the drill. Tho if you keep working at it, I’m willing to be convinced of your ignorance.
bayonet Dude - you are such a fucking idiot. Thanks for the laugh. Still waiting for that cite, ya ignorant bastard. Speaking of shifting focus - I’m still waiting for that cite.
“Nah. Coupla DUIs, accidents, arrests swept under the rug. No problem. Not an alcoholic. Just takes away from my energies.”
slackerThe consistent reports I recall and read yesterday indicated that W did NOT address his history with his daughters, until it was to be disclosed in the 2000 campaign. Now I don’t buy into the disease theory, but many commentators suggested that his lack of openness may not have been the best thing for his family.
pepp I’m sure it was just an oversight - characteristic for such a sloppy thinker - that led TJ to omit all that supernatural crap from his version of the bible!
Does everyone realize that this year Eve1 eve falls on the same day as Festivus?!
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=151185
My thread last week? Where we praised the Bloom County reference? 
Hee! Actually, jar, I missed that thread. I have to claim direct descent from the Outland strip in question for the reference. 
Nope and nope. Again you ain’t reading. It’s a simple thing to do, just sound out the words if you’re having trouble. I’ll spell it out for you. What I am saying is that the whole Declaration of Independence tangent is rationalization on your part. Jeferson wasn’t a Christian per se, but he was a deist. He used the word “God” quite frequently. This was not taken as an insult by those who did not hold to his particular brand of deism. Bush also used the word “God” in his e-mail. For all intents and purposes their actions are identical, whether or not their views are. You are differentiating between the two based solely on your perception of the Presidents beliefs and applying a double standard stemming from your own prejudices against Christianity. That’s intolerance and prejudgement there, missy.
Dinsdale, I am fully aware of the pagan origins many Christian holidays possess. Pagan traditions are a part of the celebrations, but obviously not the entirety, just as white sales and furniture warehouse clearances are not the only driving force behind the observance of President’s Day. Christmas without a yule log is still Christmas. I also fail to see the relevance in your, for lack of a better word, “argument”. Perhaps you could explain to this poor ignorant soul just what the Hell actions taken by Emperor Constantine in the AD 300’s have to do with GW asking God to bless your family. I fail to see the connection.
Dinsdale, just a quick question, in all honesty. Do you think that the desired sentiments of the letter change (to both you and to him) if W. decides to say “best wishes” instead of mention “God”?
If not, then how exactly is Bush “flaunting” his religion?
I’m Christian. Knowing my batch of friends I’m going to get at least one card like you describe, and quite a few of the “Season’s Greeting’s” type. (And a lady wished me Happy Chanukah at work the other day. I wished it right back to her.) Merry Christmas. God Bless you. Blessed Be. Be Well. Take Care.
I’m sorry I just can’t get offended when someone expresses love and care toward me and mine. If they want their personal diety to smile upon me, regardless of whether I belive in that diety, they are saying that they love me, and they want only the very best for me. And to be offended by that because of the words used is crass and rude. Your life must be overfilled with love to be able to turn some away. Personally, I’ll take all the love and care I can get. (I like it, makes me feel all cuddly inside.)
Also personally, I do try to match my sentiments to those of my audiance. While I always mean “May my God bless you and give you more good than you could ever use” The words out of my mouth may be “Take care of yourself and that family of yours or I’ll hunt you down and kick your ass good, y’hear?” (I hope my friends hear that its the same thing.)
Yes I do.
If the phrase means nothing other than “best wishes,” then why not say best wishes in the first place?
The only way I would feel otherwise, is if I were to believe that the word and concept of God had no meaning to him. Similar to saying “God bless you” reflexively in response to a sneeze, interchangeably with “Gesundheit” (sp?)
Or the basis for upholding the motto “In God we trust” on US currency.
If I wish someone “season’s greetings” or “best wishes,” that includes those who prefer a christian focus, as well as all others. Whereas if I expressly wish “a happy festivus”, it at least implies prominence of one celebration over others. Not to mention my “Happy solstice, God is a myth” cards!
There are at least two relevant aspects of the extending of a greeting - the feeling the sender derives, and the reaction he may reasonably expect from the recipient. I submit that it is insensitive and/or selfish for someone to not consider both of these aspects in phrasing their messages and drawing up their address list. And reprehensible on behalf of an authority figure.
I must join wring in accepting correction on this point.
Thank you for clarifying it, Dinsdale.
ok, re: Pres gets a salary and “he may have used donations” etc. (if as we know now, it hadn’t come through email), On such an item, it’s customary (at least from what I’ve recieved) for the source of funds for the item to be identified on the item. So, if it had been other than public funds that should have been made clear.
however, since it was email vs. paper, this leads to another issue.
it was, then, therefore, sent as part of the governmental email system, n’est-ce-pas?
If so, my experience w/governmental email systems (admittedly state vs. federal) is that there are specific regulations prohibiting mass emails of a personal nature.
I suspect had Dinsdale hit ‘reply to all’ saying ‘backatchya’, he’d have gotten in trouble.
…thus Dinsdale proves to all he’s the idiot he appears to be, and affirms the wisdom of bayonet’s decision to ignore his posts from now on…, carry on.
Please don’t go, bayonet. You have added so much to my enjoyment of these boards these many month.
A quick congrats to Dinsdale on the big Three Oh Oh Oh. I told you you could do it!
Certainly legitimate points. As has been pointed out in the past, the Bush family is somewhat…confused…regarding appropriate comments regarding atheists/atheism. But I will counter with this - do you think it at all possible that for some (Dubya neither included or excluded), the expressed sentiments are destroyed or completely lost when “God” is removed?
Secondly, given your stance, would you also be opposed to Dubya sending out a “Happy 4th of July!” greeting that would include the British consulate to the White House (if that were a US govt position)?
kdad: I must join wring in accepting correction on this point.
Me too. I still think all business/corporate holiday cards (private or public sector) are a waste of time and money and add nothing to holiday spirit, though.
mmunch - IMO, if you consider the message eviscerated by omitting “god”, than reserve it for private messages - not to all employees in your official capacity.
I’m not sure I care to figure out all the permutations of your July 4th hypo, but I can imagine it would be inconsiderate to send a message saying, “Help us celebrate when we kicked your ass.” Sure, Britain is probably big enough to suck it up - stiff upper lip and all that. But why not avoid the situation in the first place?
I think God will have to wait in line.
Big Business still has their dick up Bush’s ass right now.