I understand man. Keep healthy, I know it isn’t easy to keep perspective, but one has to for one’s own and family’s sake.
I’ve had some odd moments myself, esp. after the attempt on one of the diplos lives a few weeks back. That nicely didn’t get reported, but… funny comments some folks made me paranoid for a while.
Interesting times in any case, be aware and also remember this will come back and hit you at odd moments.
I have no comprehension of what Testy must be going through now. I’m sure that his words were written as a cry of rage against the horror and injustice of what just happened. I also think he’ll re-think them when the shock and terror has subsided.
But look. The name of Islam has been hijacked by Wahhabist terrorist motherfuckers. Maybe there are aspects of Islam that made the Wahhabist movement easier to achieve, but I don’t think so - there have been atrocities carried out for centuries that have been ‘justified’ by envoking the name of one or other of the major religions.
If I decide to set up a terror group, and in order to coerce the gullible and the angry, I envoke Buddha to bolster justification for the ghastly actions I wish them to undertake, does this make Buddhism a religion of violence?
If I become convinced that Vishnu is telling me to blow up government buildings, and I manage to gather hundreds of followers to help me carry out these actions, does this make Hinduism a religion of violence?
There were priests and vicars during the Troubles in Northern Ireland who preached that God was on their respective sides during the worst of the terrorism there. Hell, there was at least one priest who actually took part in a bombing. Does this make Christianity a religion of violence?
As Rhum Runner suggests, the Wahhabist movement is what we should be attacking, not Islam, and even more specifically its Al-Qaeda proponents. Then “Well, fucking Al-Qaeda strikes again” will ring true - and everybody here will roll their eyes with you and agree, and sympathise.
Testy, I hope things get better for you. Good luck, and well done for the active role you have played in assisting the victims.
I started to make a great reply to all this and then it was all taken away from me by random hamsters. I haven’t the energy to recreate all my lost typing. Suffice it to say that I was struck by the post that said that this is exactly what the terrorists want. That is: for people like me to yell at and insult people like Testy and others. Well, on reflection, sorry-- YOU LOSE you bastards (terrorists) because I empathise and sympathise (believe it or not) with those of you who have just suffered this tragedy. I am over here in the USA. Safe and sound in my home. From here all I saw was what looked like racist hatred. But that’s just what they want–get enough people steamed at Muslims and it’ll tear us in two. Well, sorry… not gonna happen. I still reject any notion that Islam somehow has the monopoly on religious hatred. I see too much of it in other faiths as well. But I cannot deny Testy his sorrow and anger at this moment. Or anyone else. You are free to rage. But when you come back down, please realize that when you attack an entire faith, you attack good people as well as bad. I can’t let you do that with impunity so I called you on it. However, I understand that powerful actions (terrorism) cause powerful reactions. Can we just direct our anger and disgust in a less ham-fisted way? We don’t know exactly WHO did this, but can’t we reserve our pissed-offedness for those responsible, and not use the same gigantic brush to paint everyone in the Mideast evil that the terrorists use to paint all Westerners as evil?
Testy, I hope you and your family are safe.
Ben Hicks, could you please google the following names:
Gerard Lawlor, The Shankill Butchers.
Read up. Report back.
Thank you, I wish I could have done more for them. Things will hopefully settle down by tonight. The phone network is still jammed and people are rooting through the rubble and the body-count is going upward. As I mentioned to Collounsbury, I’ll get over this in a few days.
We have to arrange alternative housing for some people who are presently living with me. Talk about unexpected guests! S On the up-side, when the Saudis catch these folks, justice will be done fairly quickly and VERY publicly. That should keep us from having too many repeats of this situation.
As far as the religious angle goes, I’m not too big a fan of any of them. I rather like Buddhism as a philosophy but thats as far as it goes.
I’m at work now, trying to act like everything is normal. Of course, I’m failing pretty miserably at that because there is no work at all being done. S
My guy in Al-Hamra says that it looks like hell there, wreckage and personal possessions strewn everywhere, covered in a truly startling amount of blood. There are also some unexcavated ruins that may still contain corpses.
All the best.
Testy
I was just rapping with my CFO. Turns out he used to live in al-Hamra.
His quote: “No religion can accept this kind of murder.”
Good guy, my CFO. I hope his new born son, Ali, grows up without having these people hanging over his life.
Unfortunately the justice meeted out by the Saudis is unlikely to deter the hard core, martyrdom at the hands of the unjust is a fine way to paradise in their ideology.
But, seeing as you, too, value differentiating between terrorists and Muslims in general, why did your first post in this thread condemn people for excusing anything and everything? The fact is, no one DID excuse terrorism in this thread, and your first post was an overreaction.
I’m glad to see that Testy’s coworkers and friends appear to be OK, for the most part.
Ben Hicks, maybe I’ll participate in a Northern Ireland debate, maybe not. I’m not much of a debater, to be honest. I just felt I had to call you on the notion that religion was somehow of little significance in the NI-matter.
Testy made a comment in the related GD thread that shows that he’s sorry for the comments he’s made in the beginning of this thread. For that, I say, “Good on ya, Testy.” I’m glad that he’s okay. I’m glad that his family’s okay.
I’m not happy at all that anyone got killed (well, except, of course the murderers–too bad they couldn’t have screwed up and managed to only kill themselves).
Well, you’re unfortunately right about the lack of deterence on the hard core and, unfortunately there are an enormous number of them in the Kingdom. This leads to the dismal realization that this is going to keep happening.
I take it your CFO is Egyptian? Mostly some good people, we have quite a few of them on the payroll here.
The thing that irks me the most is the hold these people have on the rest of society. Abdullah Average Saudi suffers from these people but would probably resist any moves to get rid of them.
All the best.
Testy
He is called Testy for a reason, folks.
Monty, however… Monty, you’re being a twit. Stop being a twit. Same for Goo Fee. Less twit, more empathetic human being, please.
Saudi is a sick society that fully reflects the sterility of what one analyst calls “neo-fundamentalism” that is neither traditional nor liberal. They are fucked.
Jordanian.
In SA it can truly be called brain washing. The Royals bear much resp. for allowing this to happen while they lead their “compound” lives – but the society has so many contradictions it is hard to escape. Possible, but hard.
sorry to bring this up Hansel, but do you have any indication that the guy who through the grenades into the tents did so out of religious motivation, or did he just go nuts in the desert as happened to alot of Gulf War 1 veterans did.
Malaria vaccinations have their issues too.
Actually, I’m sorry that I brought this up, since it’s appropos of nothing except a sharp comeback that’s not so clever in hindsight.
As I recall, when they caught him, he was going on about how the U.S. was invading Iraq to kill muslims. He himself is a muslim. I don’t recall hearing anything else about him, and I expect he was simply a fairly disturbed individual who probably shouldn’t have been given grenades in the first place, and will spend the rest of his life in prison.
Firing squad, more likely.
Looks like it may be up to 50 dead in the attacks. Here’s hoping that you and your family stay safe, Testy.
Oh, and Monty, you really were an ass in this thread.
E-Sabbath and Debaser: Not only can the both of you go to hell, you can realize that y’all’re the twits and asses here.
Monty, put me on the list, too.
Testy had some reason to be angry, and acting out, you had none. Yes, we all deplore that overgeneralizations and mis characterizations of large groups of people, but fuck, when some one’s neighborhood just got bombed and he’s not certain if his friends are still alive, the non-asshole thing to do would be to cut them a little slack and let them calm down first, before jumping in their shit w/both feet, as the quote I quoted to you did.
I was polite in my first comment to you, but you’ve continued to attack people who pointed out that your behavior was very much less than stellar here.
So, add me to the list of people saying directly to your face:
you’re acting like a fucking jerk, we’d really wish you’d stop.
Oh, that’s bullshit and you really should know it, wring. Testy came out and blamed all billion Muslims for this single event.
Time and again, you prove to me that you value stupidity over everything else.
I attacked those who’ve made and defended bigotry as an answer.
You are mistaken, as I am not acting nor being a jerk. You, OTOH, prove that you are the epitome thereof.
Yep. Anyone possibly suggesting that you act in anything less than a perfect manner must be full of shit. There’s absolutely no self correcting procedure for you, is there? Sad, really.
Yes
Yes
Yes
Again to use my example of Reformation-era Christianity, the Church sponsored the Inquisition, the persecution and massacres of Jews, the burning of harmless old women as “witches,” and ghastly warfare in Germany. Can you say that those events were not inspired by Christianity as it had become? The test of any organization’s bona fides is in its actions not in its words. It doesn’t matter if a religion preaches peace when it practices war.
In the same way, when I read comments like these from young British Muslims, people who live in a Western democracy and see how a pluralistic society functions. . .
Then I have to wonder how peaceful their religon really is. Maybe in time, Islam will return to the message of its founder and become the example of tolerance that it was during the Cordavan Emirate, when Muslim Spain was a model of peace and intellectual achivement. But right now, in 2003, fundamentalist intolerance and hatred seem to be winning the hearts and minds of the new generation of Muslims.