By your definition therefore, all religions are therefore religions of violence, because you can guarantee that at any given time, some fucker will be doing something nasty and attributing it to their deity/ies.
Of the new generation of Muslims? No, gobear. The hearts of a few mindless shitheads.
Nice try on rewriting reality, there, wring. So, I guess the next time something terrible happens and the culprit is Black, it’s okay to rail against all Blacks; if the culprit is Jewish, it’s okay to rail against all Jews; if the culprit is American, it’s okay to rail against all Americans?
If you don’t see what the poin is there, then you are one of the most stupid people on this planet.
I don’t suppose you have a self-correction procedure, hey? I recommend you grab your stopped-up ears and pull your head out of your ass for a start.
Jackass.
Monty - as anyone can note in this thread (or any other) well, anyone except you, apparently, I also suggested to those posting here that to categorize “all Muslims” as being responsible wasn’t accurate, fair or in general a ‘not good thing’.
however, I didn’t call the OP a fucker etc, while doing so, since, I noted that he was posting under extreme duress.
I did note that you did, but not under duress.
it was that behavior that I (and others) have noted to you as jerklike.
And you suggest that I’m re-writing?
Monty seriously - if lots of people are suggesting that you come off as a jerk, it just may be possible that they’re correct.
But since you disagreed with Lynn suggesting it, I grant you that you’ll ignore my assesment as well.
Sorry about the hijack but Twisty, sectarian atrocities in the north say nothing about the role of religion in the conflict. I wouldn’t go so far as to say that religion is not a factor but it’s importance is more in sharpening the division between the communities over the centuries than as a prime motivator in the modern phase of the conflict. Now that those divisions have crystallised, religion’s role has dwindled. If anything, with some obvious exceptions, the churches have been a moderating (sorry about the pun) influence on the various factions. Certainly, comparisons between the north and islamic terrorism aren’t very illuminating.
Also, don’t fall into the trap of believing that attacks on the security forces by republicans were somehow more noble than the sectarian response from loyalists. The fact that the security forces were 90% plus protestant meant that that community was suffering enormously, particularly in the early and mid seventies. Attacks on the security forces were attacks on the protestant community. They struck back but their opponents didn’t offer them the convenience of wearing uniforms - so they developed the ‘any taig will do’ philosophy. This was obviously reprehensible but it was also expedient in the face of the assault on their community.
She didn’t need a training camp. Instructions on how to kill your children can be found in god’s little instruction manual, the Bible.
Tenspace
I agree with you, but I just wanted to show a few examples of Loyalist attacks that were motivated by religion.
Sorry for what you’re going through Testy. I don’t blame you for being upset at first but am glad to also see that you’re starting to put things more in perspective.
I would be curious as to any comments or observations you can make regarding the general feelings of others there that also had to undergo this experience, especially that of Muslims toward those that did this in the name of religion (if that was indeed the case).
And obviously, any calming effect you can have on the attitudes of your Western coworkers toward Muslims as a whole, much like your apparent transformation, would be much appreciated.
Our thoughts are with you, your family, your friends and coworkers. Be safe.
manhattan:
McVeigh’s “religion” was patriotism.
IIRC, the soldier in question was to be court-martialed even before the attack. I seem to remember some suggestion that the attack was somehow supposed to clear him or cover something up or distract…
Ya know, I don’t remember correctly at all. But I really do NOT think that was motivated by religion.
The point I’m trying to make is that they weren’t motivated by religion. They were motivated by the fact that the victims belonged to the nationalist community, who held (probably - I’m sure the perpetrators didn’t check) opposing views on the national question and had different cultural aspirations. Most importantly, they were from the ‘other side’. The religious association is little more convenient shorthand in the north nowadays. The Shankhill Butchers certainly did not kill their victims because they believed in transsubstantiation. Indeed, there is more differences in doctrine and practice between many of the protestant churches than there is between them and the RC.
I see your point. But I would count the criteria of which they selected their victims as part of their motivation. But I can see how it can be argues that it wouldn’t be.
I certainly don’t subscribe to the view that the troubles are solely over religion, in fact I would say that Religion, for the last 40 years anyway, has had nothing more than a minor influence overall. but it is an aspect that can be considered, even though the current difficulties are more scocio-economic-political in nature.
(try saying that after 6 pints of guinness and a kebab from the Sultan!)
You know what I’d like to see? Christian fundamentalsts and Muslim fundamentalsts debating each other without intelectuals like us being caught in the crossfire.
I’ll give you a topic:
Whose side was God on on Septermber 11th?
Testy, my deepest sympathy for what you and your friends, family and loved ones have had to go through. It sounds like you did the best you could in the circumstances and I was shocked to see the abuse and critisism you received here, even from the first few replies to the OP. Yes, your lashing-out at the Muslim world at large wasn’t appropriate or justified, but completely understandable in the circumstances - no-one can keep a rational, objective head on their shoulders in the midst of such chaos, and shouldn’t be fucking lynched for it.
All the best man,
DC
it was in fact a racist (religionist?) OP and I regret painting with quite so broad a brush. On the other hand, as I discussed with Collounsbury today, it is going to be difficult to consider my Arabic friends (??) in quite the same way as previously.
One family I am acquainted with was stalked through their compound by AK weilding terrorists after the initial blast, a friend of my daughter’s (a 14 year old girl) was shot, another friend opened the curtains in front of his sliding glass door just in time for the shockwave to propogate through the glass. He is now lacking an eye and has more stitches in his body than most people would believe. They say he’ll be out of ICU in a few days and my wife and I wound up calling his wife today.
My daughter’s closest friend had only the comment that most people wouldn’t believe how much blood was in a person. She was in what is known locally as the Vinnell compound, it’s the one shown on the news with a three or four story building that has lost it’s front.
So yes, if someone wants to accuse me of wanting revenge, very bloody and intense and way way over the top last night, they are entirely correct. I am now cooling off and trying to put this into perspective. The group that “needs killing” is shrinking slowly and in a few days will be limited to those that did this. Unfortunately, in Saudi Arabia that’s a large group. No one is sure how many people were involved in the raids last night but they were likely not the only ones involved. Planning and executing something like this requires many people other than just the ones doing the shooting. Planning, logistics, some kind of intelligence and many other areas are needed. My faith in the Saudi “security forces” is bordering on nil and I seriously doubt they will catch them all.
All the best.
Testy
And best of all, my small girlfriend will be home in Canada in a couple of days. I’ll miss her.
Thank you for this, and my thanks to all the others that were so understanding when I certainly wasn’t. OK then. Now that I’ve got this off my chest. Could we get a mod or God or whoever to close this thing down? Lock it, delete it or whatever seems appropriate to you.
Thanks and all the best.
Testy
Shit man, that’s unfuckingbelievable.
I commend you for moderating your feelings so swiftly.
Hot damn if George W. Bush hasn’t actually hit the nail directly on the head:
Thank-you, George, for that moment of clarity.
And god bless, Testy.
God seems to be unavailable for thread closures today, so I’ll help him out. 
Thanks for your reasonable responses “the day after”, Testy. You’re certainly not a bad egg, and generalisations in times of severe stress are certainly understandable. As long as they don’t last, and you’ve definitely shown that much. Good luck to you and yours.