To be fair, the town is filling up with “people with real expertise in their respective fields”.
Thanks for the bon voyage. 
Wouldn’t a regular poster here have their ass handed to them for suggesting a board war?
There is always a third option.
Let me break it down paragraph by paragraph. Note–this is only my personal opinion, based on having met Dex, spent about 6-7 days with him in business meetings and in social occasion.
I don’t see anything there that is controversial. Pitting someone for their actions has always been acceptable. Pitting them for their personality is just a cheap shot. Being abusive, calling someone a “cunt” has never been cool on this board. And it shouldn’t be. Telling someone to “fuck off,” is, IMHO, a refuge for someone who is losing the battle in the discussion. Yeah, it feels good. But why lower yourself to the level of the Pitee?
I don’t think this needs much commentary. Dex is just expressing his reading of the controversy. While he doesn’t seem to understand why this is important to many posters here, I don’t think this anything to fault him on. He’s perhaps more old school than many, and just doesn’t think that saying any nasty epithet that comes to your mind in a Pit thread is necessary. I tend to agree with him, but I also tend to ignore that kind of thing in the Pit.
This one I wish he hadn’t verbalized.
In his defense, you’d have to work behind the scenes here, Dex for over 10 years, me for 4-5 or so.
There is a certain element on the Board, and it changes year to year, who are a bunch of juvenile pissants. And that’s being polite. It wears you down. It grates on you. Usually, because you can’t really say what you think. You try to be professional about it. You hold your tongue. You write a post, you revise it, sometimes you delete it. Ask someone like TVeblen. She’s been there, done that. There truly IS a subset of posters who need to be thrashed.
Sorry if my post seems to be interrupting the flow of the thread. Just trying to provide some perspective from the loyal opposition.
Sure. If you didn’t understand that Dex was not suggesting that he or anyone else do that, then you need to reread. While I wish Dex hadn’t phrased his frustration that way, he wasn’t suggesting to anyone that they go start a board war.
This is an accceptable thing to say in ATMB? “I’d like to go and heap horrible insults on a particular group of Dopers elsewhere” seems like the kind of thing that would get me a mod note for not being able to get around the rules in that particular fashion.
I mean, I see samclem’s wish that Dex hadn’t put his feelings this way, but I don’t believe any defence of the nature you’ve provided here would change the moderation of that post if it were by any other poster. “He’s been pushed into an emotional reaction by shitty treatment” wouldn’t fly for anyone else, I imagine, and while I can sympathise with it that also means I can sympathise with it when it happens to any poster.
That said, I would welcome **Dex **on either of the other boards (and I don’t mean that sarcastically).
I don’t moderate this forum. IMHO, and just that, the moderators on this Board tend to view posts with some degree of allowance as to the poster. That may not be the way life should work, but it’s the real world. If some new poster with a record of inflammatory posts said such a thing, then he’d be shitcanned pretty quickly. If a long-time poster to this Board were to have voiced that in the exact same language, I doubt that any Mod/Admin would have gotten their panties in a wad.
I understand–but read Ed’s apology–the “cunt” thing isn’t what most people seem to be upset about. Sam-look back through my posts–before this, I’ve used the term “cunt” once, and that was quoting someone else’s use (the search engine actually worked–I checked. One time. Quoting another poster.) Do you really think that’s the issue?
His reading is wrong and dismissive of over 1000 posts explaining that it’s not a single word issue. And he’s not stupid, so I can only assume that his misreading is a deliberate and trollish attempt to minimalize his opponent’s point-of-view, strawman-style.
Again–read Ed’s apology. Hell, let me quote a relevant sector here:
It’s NOT the “cunt” thing*–even Ed’s starting to get that. It’s making up new rules on the fly. It’s inventing rules to protect one’s butthurt ass (I thought the rule was “If it’s ok in Chicago, it’s ok”, not “If you type a phrase that someone who happens to hang around in biker bars in Caracas (or wherever), would start a knife fight over, but in Chicago, would, at worst get an “Up yours, buddy” you’ll be warned/suspended for two weeks.”), it’s making rules up on the fly to win an argument like Skip’s magical new rule that group insults are no-nos anywhere but MPSIMS"–I’m about >< this close from starting to report every instance of it in GD going back about 2 weeks. I’d bet I’d find hundreds of examples to report.
And then there were Ed’s insta-rules, which went through at minimum something like the following iterations:
- I DECREE THAT THERE WILL BE: No insulting other posters in the pit.
- Oops. Of course you can insult other posters. But no calling them bad words. No. We won’t tell you what they are. It should be obvious. No “cunt” though.
- Um–ok, you can call them bad words, but not some of them. And not in the thread titles.
- Er…and if they’re TOO bad, even if they don’t have the mystery words, we’ll tell you to knock it off. Unless they’re funny. Or creative.
- Heh–I was only funnin’ about the “funny or creative” part.
- “Dick” being sexual is one of those forbidden words but “asshole” being not-sexual (???) isn’t. ANYONE can figure this out.
- Why don’t I just come up with a list of specific words you can’t say. Anything else is good. So, it’ll be wrong to say “Fuck off, you fucking troll”, but it’ll be ok to say “You diseased crotch-spawn. Your mom is such a whore that her vagina lips flap like a sheet in the wind”
I’ve never been warned. Not once (as far as I know). I don’t even think I’ve been told to knock it off. I don’t have a particularly filthy mouth and while I’m not adverse to using invective when needed, I don’t use 'em all that much. Trust me–the word “cunt” isn’t the issue with me and with many, MANY others.
Sam-if you and Dex really think that most people are upset merely about the word “Cunt”, then the place really is doomed and should shut it’s doors. There are over 1000 posts with varying degrees of eloquence discussing why it’s intolerable to have a constantly shifting set of rules imposed by arbitrary people, and especially by an outsider (who has who doesn’t understand the board, it’s culture, the wants of the customers and who, when told that he doesn’t understand, says that
A) the customers can leave, no skin off his nose–don’t let the door hit you on the ass on your way out.
and
B) he’d rather work in a McDonald’s than try to understand what they want (and good luck with that burger-job, if you don’t care about customer service–when a customer says " No pickles", that’s not a request).
I dunno–I’m honestly appalled that there can be such a gaping disconnect between something like 400 posters and mods and admins that I generally like as posters (and in some cases, as mods/admins)
Do you, Sam really believe that this is ONLY about the word “cunt”–that if Ed suddenly shrugged his shoulders and said “Ok, you can call each other cunts again” everything would go back to normal? Do you think Dex believes that? If he does, something is terribly wrong with everyone’s ability to communicate with Dex (and you, I suppose).
Fenris
*And even though I think Lynn idiotic rule about thread titles was one of the stupidest and most destructively arbitrary abuses of a mod’s authority I’ve ever seen on any board, I didn’t feel comfortable seeing her called a “cunt” either. That said, had it been me who’d been attacked by a mod who invented a rule to smack me because she didn’t like my political views, I probably wouldn’t have responded really well either.
Oh, I get that; that’s why I said it’d probably be simply a mod note, if anything, and not an instant warning or banning. And it’s easy to just overlook sticking a mod note in, because (and with moderators especially) you can sometimes assume the poster in question knows what they did was wrong and is sorry for it. While that’s understandable, the problem as I see it with this is that it means a repeat offender who might consistently accrue mod notes (not that i’m accusing Dex of this) isn’t going to have that record; that is to say, to use **Dex **as an example, the next time he happens to say something along these lines this example of him doing so won’t have been noted or counted towards a record. The degree of allowance won’t be reasonably judged.
And I remain doubtful that a long-time poster would have recieved no Mod attention at all for that post.
If there is a more gentle, tolerant and genuinely civilized man than Dex, I’ve never been privileged to meet him.
The Pit isn’t for everybody. Dex is one of them. It is not and never has been a swamp of potty-mouthed morons. Sure, the give and take can get rough at times but I’ve read more genuinely thoughtful, interesting and insightful discussions there than in Great Debates. (A lot less pretentious and much livelier, too.) It’s a matter of tastes and one needs to stay looser there but not every forum has to appeal to every poster. The Pit, for all its (former) strengths, would never appeal to Dex and that’s right and fine.
The problem, Dex, started with just plain bad, unfair modding. A couple of posters were warned, quite unfairly, based on rules the rules used were created on the fly. That isn’t fair, nor is it right.. It was also a surefire recipe for resentment and backlash. One poster blurted out an obscenity in response. No, that wasn’t right either but the obscenity is the only thing that registered officially.
Everybody makes mistakes. Lord knows I made my share and more while modding. Sure, a few posters will hate anything and everything The Man does, just by kneejerk reflex. But the vast majority of posters understood that a lot of mod calls were somewhat subjective by nature. They were also quite willing to grant the benefit of their doubts if a mod would consent to rethink a decision, or even just listen to their reasons for disagreeing. Never once, ever, did those crude and rude Pit posters greet a retraction or apology from me with anything but cheerful goodwill. Sometimes it amounted to an amiable cuff on the shoulder with a, “Don’t sweat it, everybody’s an idiot sometime or other” but posters don’t demand perfection from mods.
Posters do expect mods and admins to be responsible. And responsive.
So the problem isn’t that mods made mistakes. The problem is that they stonewalled, and they did it behind Ed. Apparently Ed didn’t realize, didn’t check or didn’t care that their missteps caused the whole mess. The only official reaction was…to make staff unPittable and censor words. I never want to see a mod or admin chewed out in public. When I have to correct an employee it’s done in private. Humiliation is just about the most effective de-motivator around. And it shouldn’t be personal, either. Not “you’re a dolt and a horrible employee” but “that was a problem so here’s what you need to do in the future.”
The problem was that several fairly blatant staff mistakes were made in rapid succession but the only repercussions landed squarely on posters.
I very much disliked the bunker mentality among the mods/admins that grew worse over time. It’s the major reason I left, both modding and posting very often. Rules proliferated like fruit flies, often with about as much sense of direction. The distance between posters and staff is increasing, as is mistrust and skepticism on both sides. It’s toxic for all parties, and for the board.
I truly, truly think than most of the mods wouldn’t not have formally warned any long time poster for that. Again, just my opinion.
Are you sure you worded that right?
And, does this mean that Tuckerfan has a record of inflammatory posts?
I was waiting to see if you changed that statement in an edit, but you fixed the spelling and not the mistake. Freudian slip? 
Seriously, I don’t think most of the mods would give a warning for that, either; like I said (uhm, twice, now), I suspect it would simply be a mod note. Still, I don’t feel that this is particularly fair, either to Dex or to everyone else.
Wishing you luck and joy in your new home!
OK. I misposted. Thanks to all who knew what I meant. Obviously, I meant that most mods/Admins would NOT have warned any normal poster for this kind of statement. Maybe a mod note. But doubtful a warning.
Are you saying a poster, or Dex, should have been warned for the way he phrased that?
I know this only responding to a miniscule part of your very concisely worded post, but it’s all I have time for right now.
Nah. I don’t belive it’s about a single word, nor does Dex. Things will never go back to normal. We can only, hopefully, move forward and try to make it better. I think Ed is trying this approach today.
Veb. Glad to see you’re still here. Good post.
Feeling vindictive much?
If i get banned its been fun.
I didn’t say he was suggesting it. I was responding to the fact that he said he was tempted to do it. You need to reread your handbook on how to not be condescending.
Barely. And thanks, Sam. It’s to the point it’s like talking into a tornado. I’m not sure many people are listening any more.
I hope Ed does spend some time in private reflection on all this though. I don’t envy him the hard choices ahead. There aren’t any easy ones, and inaction is the worst.
Let me extend my sincere sympathies to the mods caught in this unholy crossfire, though. They don’t have the proverbial ice cube’s chance in hell right now. Just about the only noncontroversial thing you could is squash spammers.
I’m pretty much out of here now though. I’ve said my piece, several times in fact, and there just isn’t any point to repeating it. I may wander back sometime as a poster, may not. Wait-and-see is about as much patience as I can dredge up.
Good luck.