Werewolf a game Part 2 (this time with MAFIA!)

[Gadarene]

Also, just to be sure: we’re on the clock for me right now, right? As far as I’m concerned, we can just get it over with, because it’s apparent no one other than Queuing seems to have any doubt that I’m scum.

My defense, in full, is in post #1464. Heed it.

[Menocchio]

Vote Gadarene
If Gadarene is scum, BM kills Queuing
If not, BM kills Winston Smith.

Why Winston? Because his strategy is horrible and his bloodlust both unbecoming and unproductive. If he’s not scum, then he’s still a liability. At least Autolycus is off in the corner doing mobster roleplaying by himself.

And three more things:
Slow down. Calm down. There’s way too much noise in this game and far too little signal. I shouldn’t have to spend hours a day reading this thread. A slow game is in the town’s interests. At this point I would not be surprised if all suspected parties are town-aligned and neither the mafia nor the SK has posted since this weekend. Calm down.

If Zuma and Pleonast as not masons, a real mason must counterclaim. It’s been said, but I’ll say it again.

There are several people the scum might target tonight, namely Blaster, Zuma, Pleonast and myself, those widely agreed to be town. I submit that the doctor should not automatically protect Blaster, but should put the above names on a list (or any other people they feel are likely targets) and randomly select between them (use random.org). The Mafia can’t guess the mind of the doctor, because the doctor doesn’t know.

Btw, to be clear, I’m not claiming to be anything more or less than town-aligned. I’m not saying I am or am not a beat cop, a fourth mason, the doctor or a vanilla townie.

[JSexton]

@Blaster Master

That said, can all recommendations for who my target be include both a scum vs. non-scum condition on the lynchee and, to avoid ambiguiousness, list the “lynchee is scum” target first, and the “lynch is townie” target second. IE, my recommendation is, and I repeat, Scum: ** Winston/Aguecheeck ** or Not Scum: Autolycus/JSexton. Either way, we should gain a good amount of information.

Question: THe whole point of having a conditional target depends on a link existing between the lynchee and the vig target. Do you see such a link between Gadarene and any of the four people you reference there? Because if there is no link, then we may as well set a single target.

Right now, I’d go with Winston.

[Winston_Smith]

@Blaster Master

I understand they’re collecting information. I’m making recommendations for whom they should investigate. Obviously, it may be ill-advised to investigate me if they’re quite certain they believe me, or if they have good reason to distrust someone who distrusts me or the mason. Obviously, they have information that I do not, and, I’m impressed at their hiding (assuming the role exists), because I really don’t have any idea who they are.
It depends on counter-claims. If the mafia decide to claim mason, then an equal number of the true masons need to come forth as well. We lynch one pretty much at random, and if he’s scum, we lynch all those who confirmed him, and if he’s confirmed mason, then we lynch the other group. Bottom line, unless it’s VERY late game, it doesn’t seem to make sense to me for mafia to claim mason, because it is AT BEST, a 1-1 trade, which is greatly in our favor; and at worst, it’s an N-0 trade, which just destroys them. Either way, even if we see a counter-claim today, I don’t think it’s worth hashing that out now. We’ve got a good lynchee, and he’s going to net us some information.
I agree with this idea. Since the Pleonast, Zuma, and Menocchio are the closest we have to confirmed townies, I give the most weight to whom they advise I should target. Either way, I’m willing to follow what appears to be the beat of the town. At this point I recommend you be allowed to live and be one of the prime suspects tomorrow, but if most of the town disagrees and wants you dead, I’ll target you.
That said, can all recommendations for who my target be include both a scum vs. non-scum condition on the lynchee and, to avoid ambiguiousness, list the “lynchee is scum” target first, and the “lynch is townie” target second. IE, my recommendation is, and I repeat, Scum: ** Winston/Aguecheeck ** or Not Scum: Autolycus/JSexton. Either way, we should gain a good amount of information.

If you guys do me in, I guarantee the town will get a good amount of information.

[Gadarene]

One last thing. I’m off to a dinner party and won’t be back on the computer, probably, until tomorrow morning…at which point I’ll presumably have been lynched.

My defense and claim, as I say, are in Post #1464.

My final post, which I’ll make when I log on tomorrow, is going to be “I told you so.” No more, no less. Well, maybe a smiley of my choosing. I reserve that right.

Y’all are either being royally played, or there’s a clusterfuck of unparalleled proportions here. Have fun with it.

[NAF1138]

@Queuing

I have totally lost count of votes. So I don’t know if any of these people have votes as of right now. Yet here is my new (and improved) vote:

Lynch Aguacheek

Since you asked (sort of):

12- Gadarene - (Smitty, Blaster Master, nesta, ArizonaTeach, sturmhauke, Storyteller0910, brewha, Pleonast, FCoD, zuma, Pygmy Rugger, Menocchio)
Menocchio (Autolycus)
7- Queuing - (StarvingButStrong, Fern Forest, glee, Winston Smith, Malacandra, Gadarene, JSexton)
2- Pleonast - (Fretful Porpentine, Kat)
2- Pygmy Rugger - (MTS)
2- Blaster Master - (hocow, Lakai)
1- Aguecheek - (Queuing)
1- Zuma - (pimaspinner)

[JSexton]

@Pygmy Rugger

If all the Masons were to claim on the first day, it means that that the Mafia will be able to pick them off one by one, at night. The town would know who all the Masons were, but so would the Mafia. The Doctor can’t protect them all, and they’d be able to pick the Masons off, one by one.

Why wouldn’t the Mafia attack the Masons?

I’m confused. You talked about a 1:1 trade, implying that we could kill a mafioso for every mason that was nightkilled. Perhaps you were using a different definition of 1:1 trade than I’m using, but then I have no idea what you’re talking about.

Yes, I realize now that they’ve served their purpose. Assuming they’re telling the truth, that is. I just expected the Masons and Vig to try and hide their roles from the Mafia until the endgame, and not expose themselves on the second day.

They did. The claimed only when there was substantial pressure, i.e., a vote or two from lynch. Don’t you get it? They had two choices: claim or die. Neither serves to hide themselves.

[Winston_Smith]

@Gadarene

One last thing. I’m off to a dinner party and won’t be back on the computer, probably, until tomorrow morning…at which point I’ll presumably have been lynched.

My defense and claim, as I say, are in Post #1464.

My final post, which I’ll make when I log on tomorrow, is going to be “I told you so.” No more, no less. Well, maybe a smiley of my choosing. I reserve that right.

Y’all are either being royally played, or there’s a clusterfuck of unparalleled proportions here. Have fun with it.

Ironically, based on that very analysis, I’m no longer convinced of Q’s scumminess, either.

Unvote Queuing.

[Blaster_Master]

@Gadarene

JSexton:
NAF specifically said there can be up to ten Mafia in post #72. See, look. If you think he’s wrong, perhaps a clarification is in order.

Bolding mine. That means, no more than. I have been thinking along the same lines since the day began, but didn’t say anything, because I thought it would look scummy to throw out there might be less than 10 as it might look like an attempt to throw the town off of the mafia and onto the SK sooner. I doubt NAF will come out and say “Even though I said I wouldn’t, there are exactly 10 mafia.” Seriously, Whiskey-Tango-Foxtrot?

Conspiracy? No. Persistent voting bloc managing to evade all accountability for their wagoning? Hell yes.

We’re accountable to eachother. Bottom line, if Pleonast, Zuma, and I are all lying; that’s three mafia putting their heads on the line to lynch a… vanilla townie? I understand how this game breeds paranoia, but the logic is in Pleonast’s and Zuma’s favor. And if I’m lying, I guarantee I’ll be dead in two days. So it doesn’t look like much of a winning proposition if we’re all mafia, does it? All it really takes is one “true” mason counter-claim, and you’ll get at least 2 mafia between Pleonast and Zuma. And I already gave what I thought was rock solid conditionals if I fail to make my kill; one leads to a townie’s death for mine (1-1 is in favor of the town), and the other leads to a two mafia for the price of no townies (2-0 is obviously HUGELY in favor of the town). Logic dictates that if I’m mafia, then I’m just being completely unhelpful.
Anyway, here’s your chance to be helpful and help unravel this “conspiracy”, rather than being a scum burning out oh-so-ungracefully. We’re going to lynch you, period. So, if you’re pro-town as you propose, you need to suggest someone (other than **Pleonast ** and Zuma, since there are better ways to out them if they’re lying) to kill if you come up as a townie, that way your death is 1-1 for the town, and we still end up ahead.

[Blaster_Master]

@Gadarene

You’re adorable, Blaster Master.

Thanks. :dubious:

[brewha]

I’m convinced of nothing any more. It seems like we’re just circle jeking each other around here.

Dammit Zuma! things would have been much easier if you were scum!

I’m sticking with my vote and hoping that Gadarene is scum. If he’s not, at least we’ll get some info out of his death.

[Blaster_Master]

@JSexton

Question: THe whole point of having a conditional target depends on a link existing between the lynchee and the vig target. Do you see such a link between Gadarene and any of the four people you reference there? Because if there is no link, then we may as well set a single target.

Right now, I’d go with Winston.

Good point. I can go for that. Any disagreements?

[Queuing]

@Gadarene

There’s a clusterfuck of unparalleled proportions here. Have fun with it.

What colour do I use to vote for this?

[Menocchio]

There’s way too many hard feelings here. This is a game. If Gadarene is town, I owe her no more apologies than if he had a losing hand in poker. Them’s the breaks. A few of us are getting too emotionally invested in the game, it’s clouding judgements, eating up space, and generally making this thing less fun.

[Menocchio]

@Blaster Master

Good point. I can go for that. Any disagreements?

I think if Gadarene is scum, it’s likely enough that Queuing is too.

But if he isn’t, then a big chunk of my suspicion evoporates, so you might as well move on to Winston.

[Queuing]

@Menocchio

There’s way too many hard feelings here. This is a game. If Gadarene is town, I owe her no more apologies than if he had a losing hand in poker. Them’s the breaks. A few of us are getting too emotionally invested in the game, it’s clouding judgements, eating up space, and generally making this thing less fun.

I don’t think there are very many hard feelings at all. I mean I basically called Zuma stupid, he said no hard feelings and then admitted to being stupid (about that one point). As to what Gadarene said, well if it had been me who had gone, it is what I would have done too!

This just furthers my idea of him being town and voting for

here’s a clusterfuck of unparalleled proportions here. Have fun with it… I thougtht sienna sort of screams “clusterfuck” yes/no?

[Blaster_Master]

@Menocchio

I think if Gadarene is scum, it’s likely enough that Queuing is too.

But if he isn’t, then a big chunk of my suspicion evoporates, so you might as well move on to Winston.

Don’t get me wrong, I still think it’s more likely than not that **Queuing ** is scum. What gets me is Gadarene AND Queuing’s insistence that we kill Pleonast, then he claimed mason, and then they both went after Zuma. This would lead me to believe one of the two cases I listed earlier (ie, **Queuing ** is town and is telling the truth, or Gadarene is the GF). I’m willing to bite enough to let Queuing defend himself tomorrow; but it looks like **Winston ** is on the suicide-by-vigilante train, so why not oblige?

[Gadarene]

Menocchio:

If Gadarene is town, I owe her no more apologies than if he had a losing hand in poker.

Hell, I don’t give a shit if I’m out; I just want to help the town win.

Blaster Master:

Anyway, here’s your chance to be helpful and help unravel this “conspiracy”, rather than being a scum burning out oh-so-ungracefully. We’re going to lynch you, period. So, if you’re pro-town as you propose, you need to suggest someone (other than Pleonast and Zuma, since there are better ways to out them if they’re lying) to kill if you come up as a townie, that way your death is 1-1 for the town, and we still end up ahead.

Well, if you target a “low-value” poster (that is, someone who doesn’t have established allegiances and who hasn’t drawn up battle lines for himself) like Winston or Auto or even JSexton once I’m revealed to be a vanilla townie, then in my opinion you’re making a tremendous mistake. Go for “high-value.” Go for someone whose scumminess would lead you logically towards other scum. And, as Queuing suggested, take a damn close look at those players who haven’t posted much. If all of us are Town (which, no matter how annoying I find you and Pleonast and zuma, I’ll assume for the sake of this post), then the Mafia are somewhere. Wasting a target on someone who’s not going to give you future targets is totally idiotic, in my estimation.

I’m now convinced that Queuing is town, by the way. He (he?) and I think too much alike for that to plausibly not be the case.

[Santo_Rugger]

@JSexton

I’m confused. You talked about a 1:1 trade, implying that we could kill a mafioso for every mason that was nightkilled. Perhaps you were using a different definition of 1:1 trade than I’m using, but then I have no idea what you’re talking about.

My original quote said it would result in a 1:1. I meant, if all the Masons outed themselves on the first day, the best case scenario for the town could be obtaining 1:1 kills, but the Mafia would still have the advantage in the endgame, because there are, IIRC, up to 6 Masons, and up to 10 scum. The Mafia would know who they (Mafia) were, and who the Masons were. Would that not be a scum advantage?

@JSexton

They did. The claimed only when there was substantial pressure, i.e., a vote or two from lynch. Don’t you get it? They had two choices: claim or die. Neither serves to hide themselves.

I’m pretty sure this was me explaining that I get it:

@Pygmy Rugger

Yes, I realize now that they’ve served their purpose. Assuming they’re telling the truth, that is. I just expected the Masons and Vig to try and hide their roles from the Mafia until the endgame, and not expose themselves on the second day.

I’m pretty sure that’s me explaining that I get it.

[JSexton]

@Pygmy Rugger

My original quote said it would result in a 1:1. I meant, if all the Masons outed themselves on the first day, the best case scenario for the town could be obtaining 1:1 kills, but the Mafia would still have the advantage in the endgame, because there are, IIRC, up to 6 Masons, and up to 10 scum. The Mafia would know who they (Mafia) were, and who the Masons were. Would that not be a scum advantage?

…I still have no idea what you’re trying to say here.

I’m pretty sure that’s me explaining that I get it.

Your phrasing made it sounds like you were still highly critical of their actions.